**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 19 21:00:40 2004

Apr 19 21:00:40 -->	You are now talking on #vexi
Apr 19 21:00:40 ---	Topic for #vexi is #vexi welcome to the revolution
Apr 19 21:00:40 ---	Topic for #vexi set by charlieg at Mon Apr 19 20:53:56
Apr 19 21:01:03 <balliet>	whoa.. you guys are really taking off with this fork thing
Apr 19 21:01:26 <tupshin>	something about the messages to core seemed to make it inevitable
Apr 19 21:02:22 <tupshin>	I think this group of people can make some stuff happen quite fast when sufficiently motivated and enabled
Apr 19 21:02:30 <tupshin>	dev wise
Apr 19 21:02:35 <balliet>	part of me still wants to give him a second chance (however, i probably wouldn't feel the same way if i got kicked off the mailing list)
Apr 19 21:03:13 <tzanger>	ok now to register the nick
Apr 19 21:03:56 ---	tzanger is now known as vexi
Apr 19 21:03:59 <balliet>	hey, i can provide a backup mx/secondary dns too if you guys need it
Apr 19 21:04:03 <tupshin>	balliet: we can go back if he decides he wants to work as a team...preferably sooner rather than later...but I am not optimistic
Apr 19 21:04:09 ---	vexi is now known as vexibot
Apr 19 21:05:51 ---	vexibot is now known as tzanger
Apr 19 21:06:27 <tzanger>	and...
Apr 19 21:07:33 -->	vexibot (xwtbot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 19 21:07:47 <tzanger>	welcome vexibot
Apr 19 21:07:52 <tzanger>	but where's pob
Apr 19 21:07:52 <vexibot>	pob is #xwt paste bot.  Paste your code at http://xwt.mixdown.ca:8080
Apr 19 21:08:01 <tzanger>	hmm gotta change some of the notes
Apr 19 21:08:05 <charlieg>	hey balliet
Apr 19 21:08:14 <balliet>	hi charlie 
Apr 19 21:08:16 <charlieg>	we asked him to consider a release, he won't.
Apr 19 21:08:50 <charlieg>	the whole '2 week vacation' was too late to do damange... damange already done.
Apr 19 21:10:12 <charlieg>	balliet: i mean, he's completely unmoved on the 'core API is too unstable for widget development' issue
Apr 19 21:10:26 -->	JeffBuhrt (~Jeff@user-0c93r5m.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #vexi
Apr 19 21:10:37 <tupshin>	now the gang's all here
Apr 19 21:10:46 <JeffBuhrt>	Wow. I am impress by how many ;)
Apr 19 21:12:13 <tzanger>	hmm pob's on crack
Apr 19 21:13:08 <tzanger>	ok he'll be here in a minute
Apr 19 21:13:22 <tupshin>	schizonphrenic...split personality from changing names too much?
Apr 19 21:13:22 <tzanger>	vexibot forget pob
Apr 19 21:14:00 <charlieg>	tupshin: shall we make progress on getting the simplex core running and rendering?
Apr 19 21:15:13 <tupshin>	yes we shall, but I'm working for a bit longer...what's on your agenda?
Apr 19 21:15:36 <charlieg>	fixing the bugs with buttons not showing
Apr 19 21:15:45 <tupshin>	buttons, tabs, and off center?
Apr 19 21:15:47 <tupshin>	top 3?
Apr 19 21:15:52 <charlieg>	and with invisible-to-visible images being misplaced
Apr 19 21:15:58 <tupshin>	that's off center
Apr 19 21:15:59 <charlieg>	that's the top two
Apr 19 21:16:02 <charlieg>	not got a 3rd
Apr 19 21:16:07 <charlieg>	not even off centre tupshin
Apr 19 21:16:07 <tupshin>	buttons 1
Apr 19 21:16:09 <tupshin>	tabs 2
Apr 19 21:16:13 <tupshin>	misplaced 3
Apr 19 21:16:16 <charlieg>	yeah
Apr 19 21:16:20 <charlieg>	tabs i've fixed i think
Apr 19 21:16:25 <charlieg>	i'll check in a bit
Apr 19 21:16:25 <tupshin>	cool
Apr 19 21:16:34 <tupshin>	do we have testcases for the others?
Apr 19 21:16:37 <charlieg>	it was just an issue of changing childadded to ChildChange
Apr 19 21:16:46 <charlieg>	for 3 see bug 560
Apr 19 21:16:49 <charlieg>	for 1, not yet
Apr 19 21:16:50 <tupshin>	I think I tried that and it ddn't help
Apr 19 21:16:54 <tupshin>	but could be wrong
Apr 19 21:17:04 <charlieg>	probably not tupshin
Apr 19 21:17:15 <charlieg>	i've made a few changes that needed testing, i probably missed something
Apr 19 21:17:20 <charlieg>	i'll fix it now and post a patch
Apr 19 21:17:32 <tupshin>	post where, exactly? ;-)
Apr 19 21:19:03 <charlieg>	to my repo on charlietech.com tupshin ;)
Apr 19 21:20:04 <balliet>	hey charlie (and anyone else), if you just post patches to ibex-fork@ i can give you some feedback on them
Apr 19 21:20:32 <charlieg>	ok balliet
Apr 19 21:20:34 <charlieg>	good idea
Apr 19 21:20:46 <charlieg>	balliet: it'd be really cool if you looked at implementing your surface trap proposal
Apr 19 21:21:09 <charlieg>	and it'd be also cool if you could offer some critique of the distanceto.x/distanceto.y trapping idea
Apr 19 21:21:13 <charlieg>	or an alternative
Apr 19 21:21:38 <balliet>	oh speaking of that, i haven't really thought about it too much, but my first reaction was "that'll never work" (no offense) 
Apr 19 21:22:16 <balliet>	distanceto is a function, you can't really trap that, and the object returned in a plain old js object with no relation to the original box, so trapping that doens't do much good
Apr 19 21:22:36 <balliet>	there are ways you could hack around thinsg to make it work, but that seems kind of messy
Apr 19 21:23:10 <charlieg>	i see what you're saying
Apr 19 21:23:15 <charlieg>	but i'm not saying trap the function
Apr 19 21:23:18 <charlieg>	i'm saying trap the 'return value'
Apr 19 21:23:30 <charlieg>	balliet: ie make the object it returns persist when it's trapped
Apr 19 21:23:41 <charlieg>	so you'd trap b1.distanceto(b2).x
Apr 19 21:23:52 <charlieg>	which would cause b1.distanceto(b2).x to persist
Apr 19 21:24:00 <charlieg>	and obviously get fired when it's 'put' to
Apr 19 21:24:08 <balliet>	right, but then box.java needs to keep track of all those little distanceto objects that are floating all over the place
Apr 19 21:24:17 <charlieg>	yes and no
Apr 19 21:24:23 <charlieg>	yes it does but no it's not that messy
Apr 19 21:24:32 <charlieg>	you'd do it on a 'per box' basis
Apr 19 21:25:04 <tzanger>	ls
Apr 19 21:25:07 <charlieg>	i'm not sure, i don't think it's overly messy, i agree it's hackish, but i do think it'll work and work better than PosChange
Apr 19 21:25:11 <charlieg>	JeffBuhrt
Apr 19 21:25:13 <charlieg>	balliet
Apr 19 21:25:14 <charlieg>	charlieg
Apr 19 21:25:16 <charlieg>	hotrod
Apr 19 21:25:18 <charlieg>	tupshin
Apr 19 21:25:20 <charlieg>	tzanger
Apr 19 21:25:22 <charlieg>	vexibot
Apr 19 21:25:32 <balliet>	you also run in to problems with garbage collection. box.java obviously needs to keep a reference to each returned distanceto object if it is going to invoke traps on them. but if box.java stores references to them they can't be gc-ed
Apr 19 21:26:21 <charlieg>	the answer to that is being careful with handling distanceto references
Apr 19 21:26:51 <tzanger>	hahaha
Apr 19 21:26:54 <tzanger>	charlie you're a smartass
Apr 19 21:26:57 <tzanger>	took me a minute to get that
Apr 19 21:27:04 -->	pob (xwtbot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 19 21:27:09 <tzanger>	aha
Apr 19 21:27:12 <tzanger>	there you are you smarmy git
Apr 19 21:27:38 <charlieg>	balliet: i'm not saying it's the best way nor would i dream of implementing it unless you and david approved
Apr 19 21:28:00 <charlieg>	and to be honest it's not a 'blocking' feature, trapping just b.x and b.y is sufficient for widget needs
Apr 19 21:28:10 <charlieg>	something to discuss / plan for the future i guess
Apr 19 21:28:22 <balliet>	i think what we should be doing is looking at the cases where we need PosChange and then try to look at possible solutions to those problems
Apr 19 21:28:53 <charlieg>	well the two situations are 1) tracking the explicit x/y values of a box (ie required by scrollbar)
Apr 19 21:29:13 <charlieg>	2) tracking the movement of a box relative to another (not required by the widgets but may be desirable)
Apr 19 21:29:21 <tzanger>	tupshin: so am I doing DNS for vexi.org?
Apr 19 21:29:24 <charlieg>	PosChange isn't actually ideal as adam states
Apr 19 21:29:52 <balliet>	right, i don't think trapping distanceto is either
Apr 19 21:29:52 <charlieg>	balliet: but only (1) is needed now, (2) is what distanceto trapping would solve but it needs refining or replacing as a concept
Apr 19 21:29:57 <charlieg>	yes
Apr 19 21:30:00 <tupshin>	tzanger....yeah...you should be 1 dns, and david or brian should be another
Apr 19 21:30:07 <tzanger>	ok
Apr 19 21:30:08 <charlieg>	trapping distanceto does work for situation (1) and situation (2)
Apr 19 21:30:18 <--	vexibot has quit ("killed")
Apr 19 21:30:21 <charlieg>	but you'd think of trapping x/y as a shortcut for trapping distanceto i guess
Apr 19 21:31:01 <charlieg>	in situations where (given b1.distanceto(b2)) b1 is the parent, b2 is the child, and b2 is non-packed.
Apr 19 21:31:36 <charlieg>	balliet: believe it or not, i actually also agree with adam on trapping width/height ;)
Apr 19 21:32:01 <charlieg>	i just think it needs clearly stating in the reference that width/height are special properties when it comes to trapping them.
Apr 19 21:32:07 <balliet>	i'm still not sure about that. he hasn't answered all my questions yet
Apr 19 21:32:20 <tzanger>	tupshin: ok ns1.vexi.org -> 209.47.196.37, ns2.vexi.org -> 209.47.196.37 (until david/brian give me an IP) 
Apr 19 21:32:22 <charlieg>	"it just will"
Apr 19 21:32:30 <balliet>	ha
Apr 19 21:32:41 <charlieg>	;)
Apr 19 21:33:21 <balliet>	it sounds good at first, but i think it'll introduce too much ambiguity. what happens when someone does width ++= function(v) { cascade=v*2; }, feedback loop?
Apr 19 21:33:31 <tupshin>	don't do that
Apr 19 21:33:34 <balliet>	ha
Apr 19 21:33:45 <balliet>	ok, thats solved... lets do it!
Apr 19 21:33:48 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 19 21:33:54 <charlieg>	well i think this is where adam and i disagreed
Apr 19 21:34:12 <charlieg>	i say that putting to width shouldn't invoke traps until it actually changes the width
Apr 19 21:34:24 <charlieg>	which is going to be invisible to the user
Apr 19 21:34:38 <balliet>	and i say that that is impossible without adding special cases to org.ibex(vexi?).js
Apr 19 21:34:46 <charlieg>	hmm
Apr 19 21:34:50 <charlieg>	you're right
Apr 19 21:35:03 <balliet>	thats why adam just said "it'll be invoked twice"
Apr 19 21:35:06 <charlieg>	and i just realised that even if it follows what i just said, it'll still feedbak
Apr 19 21:35:35 <charlieg>	so it doesn't matter, invoked once or twice.
Apr 19 21:35:52 <charlieg>	balliet: i guess you just can't do that for width/height then
Apr 19 21:36:16 <charlieg>	i guess it's the equivalent of
Apr 19 21:36:17 <balliet>	i'm not too crazy about that solution 
Apr 19 21:36:26 <charlieg>	SizeChange ++= function(v) { width = width*2; }
Apr 19 21:36:56 <balliet>	true
Apr 19 21:38:24 <balliet>	i still don't see the problem with SizeChanged though. every other windowing toolkit works like that
Apr 19 21:38:32 <charlieg>	does it?
Apr 19 21:38:43 <charlieg>	well perhaps we should go back to SizeChanged / PosChanged
Apr 19 21:38:45 <balliet>	well, maybe not every one, but most of the ones i've worked with
Apr 19 21:38:50 <tupshin>	tzanger...ok...I set up ns1 and ns2 as that ip, and I set myself up as ns3(67.114.19.185)...can you allow zone transfers to that address?
Apr 19 21:38:54 <charlieg>	and just invoke PosChanged in every situation
Apr 19 21:38:58 <charlieg>	not just when ax has changed
Apr 19 21:39:01 <tzanger>	tupshin: yup absolutely
Apr 19 21:39:04 <tupshin>	great
Apr 19 21:39:11 <charlieg>	balliet: i'm happy with either to be honest
Apr 19 21:39:19 <charlieg>	means to an end from my perspective
Apr 19 21:39:33 <charlieg>	you're the one with the implementation knowledge and it's obvious which way you're leaning
Apr 19 21:40:01 <balliet>	now all the pressure is on me :)
Apr 19 21:40:05 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 19 21:40:16 <charlieg>	no pressure though really... i mean, we've always had SizeChanged / PosChanged
Apr 19 21:40:20 <tupshin>	that's the way we like it, balliet
Apr 19 21:40:50 <charlieg>	tzanger: you gonna setup bugzilla and bugs@vexi.org?
Apr 19 21:40:52 <tzanger>	tupshin: done
Apr 19 21:40:59 <tzanger>	charlieg: working on it
Apr 19 21:41:02 <charlieg>	cool
Apr 19 21:41:04 <balliet>	i'm not sure about PosChanged though. i think we might be able to get by without that, but i'm not sure
Apr 19 21:41:26 <balliet>	not without it necessarily, but with something different/better
Apr 19 21:41:56 <charlieg>	i do like trapping x/y for the situations it's ideal in, it's elegant
Apr 19 21:42:30 <charlieg>	but for the other situations, well distanceto trapping and PosChanged are on the table - both of which seem to have issues
Apr 19 21:43:11 <charlieg>	balliet: resolved LATER - it's something to discuss on-list, we don't *need* it atm as trapping x/y covers what we immediately need
Apr 19 21:43:20 -->	vexibot (vexibot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 19 21:43:30 <balliet>	yeah, good idea charlie 
Apr 19 21:43:48 <--	pob has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Apr 19 21:43:49 <tupshin>	charlieg...what's the very quick summary of when and why we'll need it?
Apr 19 21:44:04 <charlieg>	i'll modify that email i sent out earlier tupshin
Apr 19 21:44:08 <tupshin>	ok
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Apr 19 21:44:39 <charlieg>	tupshin: to be honest, we don't need anything other than to fix the simplex layout/rendering and get wildebeest working
Apr 19 21:44:46 <tupshin>	ok
Apr 19 21:44:47 <charlieg>	but there a few a few niceties that we should look to include
Apr 19 21:44:53 <charlieg>	such as surface trapping
Apr 19 21:45:30 <charlieg>	API resolution (ie vote on ChildChanged vs ChildAdded/ChildRemoved, sort out full PosChanged replacement, go with SizeChanged or not)
Apr 19 21:45:43 <charlieg>	and obviously error reporting
Apr 19 21:45:53 <charlieg>	tupshin: those are the top 3 niceties afaic
Apr 19 21:46:01 <tzanger>	hmm
Apr 19 21:46:05 <tzanger>	what are the requirements for bugzilla
Apr 19 21:46:12 <balliet>	i'd like to get adam's opinion on the surface trapping stuff. i'll try to get that out of him this week
Apr 19 21:46:16 <charlieg>	what os are you using tzanger?
Apr 19 21:46:26 <balliet>	but if even if he says no, i'll implement it anyway if you guys want me too
Apr 19 21:46:34 <charlieg>	well i can't see why he'd say no
Apr 19 21:46:40 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 19 21:46:49 <charlieg>	balliet: get david's opinion
Apr 19 21:46:50 <balliet>	of course not... he is open to everyones ideas
Apr 19 21:47:09 <balliet>	sure... i'll send it allong to him in case he missed it on core!
Apr 19 21:47:11 <balliet>	@
Apr 19 21:47:11 <charlieg>	david's opinion is as good as adam's
Apr 19 21:47:15 <charlieg>	yeah
Apr 19 21:48:08 <tzanger>	ok charlie -- users@, patches@, core@, widgets@?  I forget what you wanted again
Apr 19 21:48:16 <charlieg>	bugs@ tzanger
Apr 19 21:48:21 <charlieg>	a catch-all for bugs
Apr 19 21:48:24 <tzanger>	charlieg: right
Apr 19 21:48:25 <tupshin>	tzanger...zone transfer refused from 209.47.196.37#
Apr 19 21:48:31 <tzanger>	tupshin: refused??
Apr 19 21:48:42 <charlieg>	(i'll set up bugs@vexi.org to be the QA for all components)
Apr 19 21:48:42 <tupshin>	yes
Apr 19 21:48:58 <charlieg>	balliet: should we set up a nestedvm component on bugzilla for you yet?
Apr 19 21:49:00 <tupshin>	request might be coming from a slightly different ip than 67.114.19.185...can you check logs?
Apr 19 21:49:35 <tzanger>	67.114.19.186
Apr 19 21:49:41 <tupshin>	ok...can you change tha?
Apr 19 21:49:47 <tupshin>	to allow 186?
Apr 19 21:49:51 <tzanger>	yup
Apr 19 21:49:53 <tupshin>	tx
Apr 19 21:49:58 <balliet>	nah, nobody is using nestedvm yet :(
Apr 19 21:50:30 <tzanger>	tupshin: try now
Apr 19 21:50:32 <charlieg>	we are balliet and you are :)
Apr 19 21:50:59 <charlieg>	and we'll definitely advertise it strongly... bearing in mind we're going public in the next 2 weeks with a beta release
Apr 19 21:51:05 <balliet>	the thing is... i wrote it, so there aren't any bugs. therefor, we don't need bugzilla :)
Apr 19 21:51:07 <tupshin>	permission denied, tzanger
Apr 19 21:51:12 <charlieg>	:D
Apr 19 21:51:21 <tupshin>	: transfer of 'vexi.org/IN' from 209.47.196.37#53: failed while receiving responses: permission denied
Apr 19 21:51:33 <balliet>	seriously, there just isn't enough going on with it. i can keep track of everything just fine myself 
Apr 19 21:51:40 <charlieg>	ok balliet, np
Apr 19 21:51:42 <tzanger>	tupshin: hmm ok that is different - I think that is on your end is it not?  can you write to the directory you're trying ot put them in?
Apr 19 21:51:53 <tzanger>	Apr 19 21:20:35 roll named[65]: client 67.114.19.186#57398: transfer of 'vexi.org/IN': AXFR started
Apr 19 21:51:57 <tzanger>	I'm allowing it
Apr 19 21:52:02 <charlieg>	balliet: just speak up as soon as you want a mailing list / bugzilla entry
Apr 19 21:52:05 <tzanger>	I have twin boxes -- tuck and roll  :-)
Apr 19 21:52:20 <charlieg>	balliet: there was a guy from the dotgnu project playing with it
Apr 19 21:52:24 <charlieg>	though he couldn't get it to work
Apr 19 21:52:39 <charlieg>	balliet: if you like i'll create a little webpage and freshmeat entry for ya
Apr 19 21:52:59 *	charlieg sweetens the deal ;)
Apr 19 21:53:33 <charlieg>	tupshin: who was it from dotgnu playing with mips2java?
Apr 19 21:53:54 <balliet>	oh yeah, oyvind harboe (sp?) was, he was from gcj not dotgnu
Apr 19 21:54:04 <tzanger>	balliet: you need to sign up 
Apr 19 21:54:09 <tzanger>	brian@brianweb.net's not subscribed
Apr 19 21:54:21 <balliet>	for what?
Apr 19 21:54:24 <balliet>	ibex-fork?
Apr 19 21:54:27 <tzanger>	yeah
Apr 19 21:54:30 <tupshin>	charlieg...I forget the name
Apr 19 21:54:31 <balliet>	o yjoml o
Apr 19 21:54:33 <balliet>	oops
Apr 19 21:54:36 <balliet>	i think i'm subscribed 
Apr 19 21:54:39 <balliet>	i'm getting emails
Apr 19 21:54:43 <tzanger>	hmm
Apr 19 21:54:50 <charlieg>	tzanger: brian@xwt.org probably
Apr 19 21:55:01 <tzanger>	yeah
Apr 19 21:55:13 <balliet>	Received: from [209.47.196.37] (helo=mail.mixdown.ca ident=qmailr)
Apr 19 21:55:13 <balliet>		by megacz.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
Apr 19 21:55:13 <balliet>		id 1BFkZC-0003m6-00
Apr 19 21:55:13 <balliet>		for <brian@xwt.org>; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:00:54 -0700
Apr 19 21:55:27 <balliet>	change it to brian@brianweb.net if you want
Apr 19 21:55:43 <balliet>	but i don't anticipate my @xwt.org address going away anytime soon 
Apr 19 21:56:20 <charlieg>	i don't think adam will revoke anybody's @xwt.org addresses
Apr 19 21:56:35 <charlieg>	he believes he's being professional
Apr 19 21:56:48 <charlieg>	meow
Apr 19 21:56:55 <tupshin>	i believe he locked my ssh out
Apr 19 21:57:02 <tupshin>	don't care
Apr 19 21:57:17 <balliet>	charlie, does yours work?
Apr 19 21:57:18 <charlieg>	hmm mine still works
Apr 19 21:57:37 <tupshin>	yeah...but apparently he's less grumpy at you than at me ;-)
Apr 19 21:57:41 <tupshin>	surprise surprise
Apr 19 21:57:51 <tzanger>	I am just trying to figure out these comments
Apr 19 21:58:20 <tzanger>	"tupshin's signal-to-noise is in the red"  (contributions to core have been small and insignificant) and charlie's sampler's devoid of real work
Apr 19 21:58:23 <tzanger>	that blew me away
Apr 19 21:59:05 <charlieg>	you can't argue when somebody has such a warped perspective... his white is our black, our red is his blue
Apr 19 21:59:56 <charlieg>	(somebody could be him or us... who knows!)
Apr 19 22:00:10 ---	tzanger is now known as vexi
Apr 19 22:00:17 ---	tupshin is now known as megacz
Apr 19 22:00:26 <megacz>	boo
Apr 19 22:00:28 <charlieg>	under cover?
Apr 19 22:00:31 ---	megacz is now known as tupshin
Apr 19 22:00:34 ---	vexi is now known as tzanger
Apr 19 22:00:36 <charlieg>	tupshin was megacz all along!
Apr 19 22:00:57 <tupshin>	heh
Apr 19 22:01:03 <tupshin>	for years and years, in fact
Apr 19 22:01:22 <tupshin>	don't you think it's suspicious that we're the only two that have claimed to have met, and live in the same city? ;-)
Apr 19 22:02:33 <tzanger>	you guys are like the Pokeroo
Apr 19 22:02:46 <balliet>	hey, tupshin, did you ever go to that computer geek party thing or whatever (i mean that in a positive way) at his place?
Apr 19 22:02:58 <tupshin>	yes...that's when I met him
Apr 19 22:03:05 <balliet>	cool
Apr 19 22:03:13 <tupshin>	tzanger...problem is that my request is coming from 186, but i'm acting as 185
Apr 19 22:03:21 <tupshin>	zone vexi.org/IN: refused notify from non-master: 67.114.19.185#40487
Apr 19 22:03:29 <tzanger>	burning man
Apr 19 22:03:35 <tupshin>	no...not that
Apr 19 22:03:38 <tupshin>	i didn't do burning man
Apr 19 22:03:46 <balliet>	yuck.. bind. you guys ever consider djbdns?
Apr 19 22:03:50 <tupshin>	this was just a party at the loft he shares with about 10 people
Apr 19 22:04:02 <tzanger>	considered it yes,  voted against it
Apr 19 22:04:05 <tzanger>	BIND is where it's at :-)
Apr 19 22:04:07 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 19 22:04:14 <tzanger>	I use qmail but even that I'm slipping over to Postfix
Apr 19 22:04:32 <balliet>	i use postfix too, i don't like qmail 
Apr 19 22:04:34 <tupshin>	I used qmail for 4 years and just moved to postfix
Apr 19 22:04:37 <balliet>	err.. not tooo
Apr 19 22:04:43 <charlieg>	good party tupshin?
Apr 19 22:06:25 <hotrod>	brb
Apr 19 22:06:26 <--	hotrod has quit ("Leaving")
Apr 19 22:07:25 <tupshin>	it was ok...some interesting geek presentations
Apr 19 22:08:46 <charlieg>	less of a party, more a geek meeting tupshin?
Apr 19 22:08:52 <charlieg>	what did adam present?
Apr 19 22:09:22 <tupshin>	nothing....about a hundred people there, and about 4 1/2 hour presentations
Apr 19 22:09:32 <tupshin>	one person  on cg animation
Apr 19 22:09:43 <tupshin>	another on time lapse photography of graffiti
Apr 19 22:09:53 <tupshin>	i had to leave early and missed the rest
Apr 19 22:10:45 -->	hotrod (~hotrod@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3565003.sympatico.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 19 22:15:17 <charlieg>	wb hotrod
Apr 19 22:17:19 <charlieg>	tupshin: ready yet
Apr 19 22:18:10 <charlieg>	balliet: java.lang.NullPointerException at org.ibex.js.JS.addTrap(JS.java:220)
Apr 19 22:18:16 <charlieg>	fancy tracking it down? :)
Apr 19 22:19:09 <balliet>	is the function you're trying to add null?
Apr 19 22:19:17 <charlieg>	don't think so balliet
Apr 19 22:19:25 <charlieg>	not sure
Apr 19 22:19:35 <charlieg>	not sure where it is, just ran a collection of widgets and got that
Apr 19 22:19:57 <charlieg>	it's difficult to track down as it gives no indication of where in the xml code it occurs
Apr 19 22:20:01 <tupshin>	if it could be a null function, then that should be caught and a jsexn should be thown
Apr 19 22:20:35 <balliet>	*should*
Apr 19 22:20:41 <tupshin>	;-)
Apr 19 22:20:51 <tupshin>	I'll add that
Apr 19 22:21:05 <balliet>	should be a one line fix, just fine TRAP_ADD in Interpreter.java
Apr 19 22:21:11 <balliet>	or is it ADD_TRAP
Apr 19 22:24:50 <tupshin>	sorry tzanger...I adusted things here so that if you just switch back to allowing 185 then all should be well
Apr 19 22:26:32 <tzanger>	wow that dns update was fast
Apr 19 22:26:36 <tzanger>	I am allowing both tupshin 
Apr 19 22:26:44 <tzanger>	ns.uunet.ca knows about vexi.org
Apr 19 22:27:03 <tupshin>	cool...i register with joker.com, and it always seems to propagate real fast
Apr 19 22:33:53 <--	hotrod has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Apr 19 22:37:33 <JeffBuhrt>	vexi.org is fine from here (other than the forbidden), but resolution is fine.
Apr 19 22:38:47 <tupshin>	ok...i'm functional as a secondary for now
Apr 19 22:40:55 <tzanger>	forbidden?
Apr 19 22:41:15 <tzanger>	what's it do now
Apr 19 22:41:24 <tupshin>	no...it works
Apr 19 22:41:26 <tzanger>	should jus tbe a totally blank page
Apr 19 22:41:30 <tupshin>	oh...jefff
Apr 19 22:41:40 <tzanger>	[Mon Apr 19 22:06:40 2004] [error] [client 24.145.236.182] Directory index forbidden by rule: /www/vexi.org/
Apr 19 22:41:43 <tzanger>	no worris
Apr 19 22:41:45 <tzanger>	er worries
Apr 19 22:41:47 <tzanger>	and it's my bedtime
Apr 19 22:41:51 ---	tzanger is now known as tz-afk
Apr 19 22:41:57 <tupshin>	blank page here 
Apr 19 22:42:03 <tz-afk>	I should have the lists up tomorrow
Apr 19 22:42:07 <tupshin>	ok
Apr 19 22:42:10 <charlieg>	cool
Apr 19 22:42:22 <charlieg>	tupshin: you managed to fix that NullPointerException? :)
Apr 19 22:42:25 <tz-afk>	and charlie's got the webdav:// password so he can alter it as soon as he gets a decent browser
Apr 19 22:42:29 <tupshin>	but you really should type when you're away from your keyboard...you might hurt something
Apr 19 22:42:35 <tz-afk>	hahaha
Apr 19 22:42:36 <tupshin>	shoudn't
Apr 19 22:48:39 <charlieg>	tupshin: if you fix that, i can finish getting tabpane to work ;)
Apr 19 22:48:52 <tupshin>	ok...I really will tonight, but not for another hour
Apr 19 22:49:06 <balliet>	the null pointer thing? 
Apr 19 22:49:09 <tupshin>	yeah
Apr 19 22:49:18 <balliet>	charlie, you could probably fix that yourself
Apr 19 22:49:23 <tupshin>	yeah...he could
Apr 19 22:49:26 <tupshin>	he's just being a wuss
Apr 19 22:49:33 <balliet>	heh
Apr 19 22:50:43 <balliet>	diff -rN ibex-old/src/org/ibex/js/Interpreter.java ibex-new/src/org/ibex/js/Interpreter.java
Apr 19 22:50:43 <balliet>	404a405
Apr 19 22:50:43 <balliet>	>                 if(val == null) throw new JSExn("tried to add/remove a null trap");
Apr 19 22:52:28 <charlieg>	that's balliet :)
Apr 19 22:53:08 <balliet>	hey, when you guys do this fork are you going to rename everything to org.vexi.* or just stick with org.ibex?
Apr 19 22:53:21 <charlieg>	not discussed yet
Apr 19 22:53:39 <balliet>	i think you should stick with org.ibex, it'll make it easier to share patches between your tree and adam's
Apr 19 22:54:07 <charlieg>	definitely a strong argument for it
Apr 19 22:54:14 <balliet>	of couse, in theory darcs should keep track of the renames
Apr 19 22:55:09 <balliet>	i actually got that to work for one of my freetype patches. darcs automatically applied the patch to the file in org/ibex/graphics 
Apr 19 22:55:53 <balliet>	but o
Apr 19 22:56:00 <balliet>	figers misaligned :)
Apr 19 22:56:06 <balliet>	i'm not sure if that works both ways
Apr 19 22:56:06 <tupshin>	I vote initial rebranding of widgets to vexi space, but leave core...possibly change core later
Apr 19 22:56:22 <balliet>	sounds good
Apr 19 22:56:29 <JeffBuhrt>	Given the widgets are visible it makes sense.
Apr 19 22:56:47 <tupshin>	and also, the codebase has been managed by a vexi guy ;-)
Apr 19 22:56:50 <charlieg>	i vote don't rename for the initial release, in order to concentrate on functionality for now
Apr 19 22:57:11 <charlieg>	initial release being a beta 'we have something that works' release
Apr 19 22:57:21 <tupshin>	don't care either way...but if I submit a functional vexi patch for widgets would you take it? ;-)
Apr 19 22:58:07 <charlieg>	balliet: org.ibex.util.XML$Exn: root element must not have attributes at 3:52
Apr 19 22:58:08 <charlieg>	at org.ibex.core.Template$TemplateHelper.startElement(Template.java:188)
Apr 19 22:58:17 <charlieg>	tupshin: yes but wait before you do
Apr 19 22:58:20 <tupshin>	sure
Apr 19 22:58:27 <charlieg>	(that is wait until things are working right)
Apr 19 22:58:29 <tupshin>	so is the error correct, charlieg?
Apr 19 22:58:40 <charlieg>	not sure tupshin
Apr 19 22:58:47 <charlieg>	it doesn't give a file name / place
Apr 19 22:58:58 <tupshin>	very specific error, though
Apr 19 22:58:59 <charlieg>	should i just add another 'throw JSExn' there?
Apr 19 22:59:15 <charlieg>	tupshin: ?
Apr 19 22:59:15 <tupshin>	not sure without looking at the code path
Apr 19 22:59:54 <charlieg>	hmm
Apr 19 23:00:02 <charlieg>	XML Exn's aren't handled
Apr 19 23:00:32 <charlieg>	tupshin: where should i catch XML Exns?
Apr 19 23:00:55 <tupshin>	needs to be discussed...hadn't thought about those
Apr 19 23:01:16 <charlieg>	well atm they're big red things and not stating the source template just isn't helpful ;)
Apr 19 23:01:32 <tupshin>	you can try another jsexn catch there
Apr 19 23:03:03 <charlieg>	nope tupshin, didn't like it
Apr 19 23:03:09 <tupshin>	?
Apr 19 23:03:23 <charlieg>	build/java/org/ibex/core/Template.java:188: unreported exception org.ibex.js.JSExn; must be caught or declared to be thrown
Apr 19 23:03:31 <tupshin>	yeah? ;-)
Apr 19 23:03:40 <tupshin>	you add throws JSExn to declaration
Apr 19 23:03:49 <charlieg>	oh of course :)
Apr 19 23:04:16 <balliet>	you probably shouldn't be adding JSExns to the XML code in template.java
Apr 19 23:04:31 <balliet>	better catch the XMLExns somewhere and turn them into jsexns
Apr 19 23:04:33 <charlieg>	temporary measure balliet ;)
Apr 19 23:04:41 <charlieg>	(temporary as in now only)
Apr 19 23:04:44 <balliet>	ok
Apr 19 23:04:57 <charlieg>	.Template.TemplateHelper cannot override startElement(org.ibex.util.XML.Element) in org.ibex.util.XML; overridden method does not throw org.ibex.js.JSExn
Apr 19 23:04:59 <charlieg>	hah!
Apr 19 23:05:10 <charlieg>	looks like it won't allow it anyway balliet!
Apr 19 23:05:32 <balliet>	can you paste the backtrace in irc?
Apr 19 23:05:41 <balliet>	i can tell you where to catch the xmlexn then
Apr 19 23:05:42 <charlieg>	you got a jabber id balliet?
Apr 19 23:05:46 <balliet>	nope
Apr 19 23:05:52 <tupshin>	loooooosssseeeerr
Apr 19 23:05:53 <charlieg>	ok moment, i'll use pob
Apr 19 23:06:13 <balliet>	just paste it in irc... i don't think anyone will care
Apr 19 23:06:19 <tupshin>	irc kicks you
Apr 19 23:06:21 <charlieg>	it's big
Apr 19 23:06:22 <balliet>	really?
Apr 19 23:06:23 <tupshin>	if you paste much
Apr 19 23:06:26 <charlieg>	anyway, tbh it can wait
Apr 19 23:06:30 <tupshin>	pob is here
Apr 19 23:06:38 <charlieg>	it does say the file name really low down in the output
Apr 19 23:07:31 <pob>	"charlieg" at 217.44.66.93 pasted for balliet at http://www.mixdown.ca:8080/1
Apr 19 23:07:50 <charlieg>	balliet: plus pob gives you nice formatting
Apr 19 23:08:36 <charlieg>	heh
Apr 19 23:08:42 <charlieg>	mispelt xmlns
Apr 19 23:09:14 <balliet>	i hate it when adam does stuff like this:
Apr 19 23:09:16 <balliet>	        try {
Apr 19 23:09:16 <balliet>	            return new TemplateHelper(sourceName, s, ibex).t;
Apr 19 23:09:16 <balliet>	        } catch (Exception e) {
Apr 19 23:09:16 <balliet>	            Log.error(Template.class, e);
Apr 19 23:09:16 <balliet>	            return null;
Apr 19 23:09:16 <balliet>	        }
Apr 19 23:09:22 <balliet>	just throw the damn exception :)
Apr 19 23:10:01 <balliet>	that just ends up creating a null pointer exception after the xml exception leadingto an even longer error message/backtrace
Apr 19 23:10:47 <charlieg>	balliet: make a note of that if you would (either manually or on bugs.xwt.org)
Apr 19 23:11:04 <charlieg>	obviously we need to note down every instance of 'needs fixing' so we can fix it later :)
Apr 19 23:11:14 <balliet>	i don't think it is really worth it. that is all part of the better error handling
Apr 19 23:11:45 <balliet>	eventually somebody is going to have to just do a global search for throw/catch and take a look at each case individually 
Apr 19 23:12:04 <charlieg>	ok
Apr 19 23:12:20 <charlieg>	just might be a case of doing it one thing at a time though, until it's eventually done ;)
Apr 19 23:12:29 <JeffBuhrt>	night guys
Apr 19 23:12:36 <balliet>	goodnight 
Apr 19 23:12:43 <charlieg>	'night JeffBuhrt
Apr 19 23:12:56 <--	JeffBuhrt has quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
Apr 19 23:31:57 ---	We'll miss you
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] (i5zq0nj0ot@roc-24-24-42-132.rochester.rr.com) : Brian Alliet
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] #vexi @#ibex 
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] zelazny.freenode.net :Corvallis, OR, US
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] is away (homework, sleep, school, work)
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] is an identified user
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] idle 00:00:10, signon: Mon Apr 19 03:31:45
Apr 19 23:32:07 ---	[balliet] End of WHOIS list.
Apr 19 23:42:11 <charlieg>	balliet: is there anything you'd consider necessary before an ibex/vexi release?
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 20 06:57:52 2004

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 20 19:21:30 2004

Apr 20 19:21:30 -->	You are now talking on #vexi
Apr 20 19:21:30 ---	Topic for #vexi is #vexi welcome to the revolution
Apr 20 19:21:30 ---	Topic for #vexi set by charlieg at Mon Apr 19 20:53:56
Apr 20 19:22:06 <balliet>	did someone turn off the bot on #ibex ?
Apr 20 19:22:17 <balliet>	i kinda liked being able to read throuh the logs when i miss hhh
Apr 20 19:23:26 <tupshin>	hhh in #ibex consisted of the following:
Apr 20 19:23:27 <tupshin>	(14:17:39) quantized [~root@air561.startdedicated.com] entered the room.
Apr 20 19:23:27 <tupshin>	(14:21:59) charlieg: evening quantized
Apr 20 19:23:27 <tupshin>	(14:22:13) quantized: hey
Apr 20 19:23:27 <tupshin>	(14:29:54) charlieg: anything i can help you with quantized?
Apr 20 19:23:27 <tupshin>	(14:30:23) quantized: sorry, double-subscribed.
Apr 20 19:23:29 <tupshin>	(14:30:24) quantized left the room.
Apr 20 19:24:08 <balliet>	adam didn't show up?
Apr 20 19:24:08 <tupshin>	at least he was only 17 minutes late ;-)
Apr 20 19:24:24 <balliet>	i figured he would want to given all that has been going on.. guess not
Apr 20 19:24:29 <tupshin>	later  in #vexi:
Apr 20 19:24:29 <tupshin>	(14:36:16) quantized left the room (quit: "[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c20cvs for the PalmPilot today!").
Apr 20 19:24:29 <tupshin>	(14:36:24) charlieg: that was adam
Apr 20 19:25:00 <balliet>	what makes him think that?
Apr 20 19:25:35 <tupshin>	(14:31:52) charlieg: quantized: you posted on (ibex) lists before?
Apr 20 19:25:35 <tupshin>	snip
Apr 20 19:25:35 <tupshin>	(14:36:15) quantized: Charlie, in response to your earlier question, the answer is "yes, often".
Apr 20 19:26:23 <tupshin>	and of course:
Apr 20 19:26:23 <tupshin>	(14:36:04) quantized: You know, NDTM's can solve NP-complete problems in P-time
Apr 20 19:26:27 <tupshin>	sounds exactly like him
Apr 20 19:26:48 <tupshin>	and the bitchx signoff sig is telling, as well
Apr 20 19:27:22 <balliet>	lots of people use bitchx, i've been known to use bitchx now and then when i'm not at a comp with a native irc client
Apr 20 19:27:42 <balliet>	doesn't really seem like he is the kind of person to be sneakly like that though
Apr 20 19:27:45 <tupshin>	the main thing was his eventual answer to charlie's question
Apr 20 19:27:54 <tupshin>	he was telling him, after the fact who it was
Apr 20 19:28:04 <balliet>	i guess
Apr 20 19:28:16 <tupshin>	hard to interpret that part any other way
Apr 20 19:29:56 <charlieg>	balliet: he probably didn't want a barrage of criticism
Apr 20 19:30:08 <charlieg>	and who posts to the list often that isn't represented?
Apr 20 19:30:25 <balliet>	good point 
Apr 20 19:30:59 <charlieg>	(21:35:53) quantized: But the main gist is that forks aren't always a hostile thing
Apr 20 19:30:59 <charlieg>	(21:36:01) quantized: Think of it as a nondeterministic turing machine
Apr 20 19:31:17 <balliet>	that convinces me
Apr 20 19:31:24 <tupshin>	heh...lol
Apr 20 19:38:43 <charlieg>	balliet: any further thoughts on bug 537?
Apr 20 19:40:05 <balliet>	the win32/linux text thing? nope, not really. i haven't looked at it in a while though
Apr 20 19:40:25 <balliet>	it is clearly something wrong with the alphachannel junk in drawGlyph
Apr 20 19:40:36 <balliet>	but i really don't know enough about awt to fix it
Apr 20 19:40:47 <charlieg>	does it definitely work on macos balliet?
Apr 20 19:40:47 <balliet>	i'm going to have to fine some good documentation about all that stuff
Apr 20 19:40:56 <balliet>	yeah
Apr 20 19:41:25 <charlieg>	could it have something to do with screen dephs (16bit, 24bit, 32bit) affecting something?
Apr 20 19:41:31 <charlieg>	*depths
Apr 20 19:42:08 <balliet>	probably not
Apr 20 19:42:27 <balliet>	it doesn't work under vpc using the same depth as os x
Apr 20 19:43:54 <balliet>	does anyone know of any good awt/swing mailing lists?
Apr 20 19:44:05 <charlieg>	the ones on java.sun.com ?
Apr 20 19:44:06 <balliet>	it might be easier just to ask some people more familiar with this kind of stuff
Apr 20 19:44:12 <charlieg>	i was thinking just that
Apr 20 19:45:29 ---	tz-afk is now known as tzanger
Apr 20 19:47:52 <charlieg>	wb tzanger
Apr 20 19:48:33 <tzanger>	nice post to xwt-core
Apr 20 19:48:34 <tzanger>	hahahaha
Apr 20 19:48:42 <tupshin>	;-)
Apr 20 19:52:14 <tzanger>	you guys don't have your MUAs set to automatically use the right list?
Apr 20 19:52:29 <tupshin>	nah...he cc'ed the wrong list
Apr 20 19:52:44 <tupshin>	from a non-list thread
Apr 20 19:53:00 *	tupshin smacks him up side da head
Apr 20 19:55:37 <tupshin>	tzanger...bug thoughts? charlie was getting antsy already ;-)
Apr 20 19:55:43 <tupshin>	bug tracking system, i mean
Apr 20 19:56:01 <tzanger>	www.mixdown.ca/~andrew/dump/vexi.png
Apr 20 19:56:04 <tzanger>	it's clear here :-)
Apr 20 19:56:08 <tzanger>	yeah I'm looking at bugzilla right now
Apr 20 19:56:36 <tupshin>	hehee..lol...i filter it too...but still ;-)
Apr 20 19:57:08 <tzanger>	I still like vw-bugs
Apr 20 19:57:12 <tzanger>	totally unintentional
Apr 20 19:57:15 <tupshin>	roflmao
Apr 20 20:02:38 <tzanger>	sorry guys
Apr 20 20:02:42 <tzanger>	bugzilla wants mysql
Apr 20 20:02:49 <tupshin>	as I mentioned earlier ;-)
Apr 20 20:02:52 <tzanger>	I didn't see that
Apr 20 20:03:12 <tupshin>	do you not want to be running mysql?
Apr 20 20:03:23 <tzanger>	blah...  why they are using DBI and then locking you to that crap
Apr 20 20:03:49 <tzanger>	tupshin: I'd _really_ prefer not to -- I've (thankfully) forgotten everything I knew about it
Apr 20 20:03:51 <tupshin>	bugzilla was poorly designed early on...it's been greatly improved, and is pretty powerful, but under it all, it's pretty cludgy
Apr 20 20:04:38 <tzanger>	http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/142/1999/11/0/2908863/
Apr 20 20:04:54 <tupshin>	http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98304
Apr 20 20:05:01 <tzanger>	"After this experience, I can say with a great deal of certainty that the
Apr 20 20:05:01 <tzanger>	people who think that making Bugzilla DB-backend agnostic is a matter of
Apr 20 20:05:01 <tzanger>	switching to DBI are flat out wrong.  I can also say that it`s unlikely
Apr 20 20:05:01 <tzanger>	that any version of bugzilla will be able to be perfectly db-agnostic,
Apr 20 20:05:01 <tzanger>	except by using some sort of wrapper interface around pretty much any
Apr 20 20:05:04 <tzanger>	SQL calls."
Apr 20 20:05:07 <tzanger>	damn that was supposed to be one line haha
Apr 20 20:05:21 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 20 20:05:50 <tzanger>	is there another bugtracker that would be comparable and acceptable?
Apr 20 20:05:59 <tzanger>	I hate to suggest that though
Apr 20 20:06:30 <tupshin>	Let me see if I can suggest something else
Apr 20 20:06:41 <tzanger>	http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-interfaces/2002-07/msg00056.php
Apr 20 20:06:54 <tzanger>	that's 2 years later (two years ago) and showing more progress ;-)
Apr 20 20:07:13 <tupshin>	did you see how long the bugs is?
Apr 20 20:07:16 <tupshin>	bug
Apr 20 20:08:27 <tupshin>	gnats might be sufficient
Apr 20 20:11:58 <tzanger>	what about jitterbug?
Apr 20 20:12:04 <tzanger>	http://samba.anu.edu.au/jitterbug/
Apr 20 20:12:18 <tzanger>	things with the samba stamp of approval are very much like things iwth the apache stamp :-)
Apr 20 20:12:30 <tzanger>	oh wait jitterbug's not under development anymore
Apr 20 20:12:59 <tzanger>	jitterbug's nice sounding though
Apr 20 20:13:54 <tzanger>	http://www.agstools.com/bugtrack/index.html
Apr 20 20:13:55 <tzanger>	interesting
Apr 20 20:14:02 <tzanger>	it can pull in Bugzilla databases and is DB agnostic
Apr 20 20:14:43 <tzanger>	hmm definitely look at bugtrack
Apr 20 20:15:16 <tzanger>	you guys are a much better judge of what'll work
Apr 20 20:15:31 <tzanger>	http://flyspray.rocks.cc/
Apr 20 20:15:39 <tzanger>	Psi ( the jabber client I highly recommend ) uses it
Apr 20 20:16:55 <tupshin>	did you look at gnats at all?
Apr 20 20:17:24 <tupshin>	flyspray does look cool, though
Apr 20 20:18:31 <tzanger>	I'm reading over gnats right now, trying to see what it's requirements are
Apr 20 20:18:32 <tupshin>	just based on a quick perusal, I'd be willing to go with flyspray,
Apr 20 20:18:39 <tzanger>	gnats makes me think of nads 
Apr 20 20:18:40 <tzanger>	hahaha
Apr 20 20:18:41 <tzanger>	gnads
Apr 20 20:18:47 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 20 20:19:16 <tzanger>	hmm I'll have to update php on here, no biggie
Apr 20 20:19:24 <tupshin>	for flyspray?
Apr 20 20:19:27 <tzanger>	I like that bugtrack thing though personally 
Apr 20 20:19:42 <tzanger>	yeah PHP 4.3, ADODB
Apr 20 20:20:19 <tzanger>	I have the flyspray developer on my jabber roster
Apr 20 20:20:29 <tupshin>	that helps
Apr 20 20:21:34 <tzanger>	blah
Apr 20 20:21:43 <tzanger>	I hate software that does not CLEARLY say what is required
Apr 20 20:22:13 <tzanger>	hey says "cool.  let me know how that works on the ML, there was someone else interested in that too"
Apr 20 20:22:19 <tupshin>	I see both pgsql and mysql files
Apr 20 20:22:46 <tzanger>	for what
Apr 20 20:22:50 <tupshin>	flyspray
Apr 20 20:23:02 <tupshin>	db creation files
Apr 20 20:23:17 <tupshin>	not seeing any other dependencies beside one of those dbs and php
Apr 20 20:23:55 <tzanger>	ah
Apr 20 20:24:03 <tzanger>	yeah he says ADODB and php are the requirements
Apr 20 20:25:05 <tupshin>	mysql is primary development platform, but multiple people succesfully using it with postgres
Apr 20 20:25:10 <tzanger>	cool
Apr 20 20:25:18 <tzanger>	did you take a look at bugtrack?
Apr 20 20:25:36 <tupshin>	no
Apr 20 20:25:44 <tzanger>	http://www.agstools.com/bugtrack/index.html
Apr 20 20:25:53 <tzanger>	it seems compatible with bugzilla's db data
Apr 20 20:25:59 <tupshin>	looking...hold on
Apr 20 20:26:03 <tzanger>	it seems quite lean -- like a leaned-down bugzilla
Apr 20 20:26:22 <tzanger>	the demo's kind of ugly but hey
Apr 20 20:26:33 <tupshin>	I liked the ui of flyspray much better
Apr 20 20:26:43 <tupshin>	much much much better ;-)
Apr 20 20:27:02 <tzanger>	ok
Apr 20 20:27:34 <tzanger>	hmm
Apr 20 20:27:34 <tzanger>	# php --version
Apr 20 20:27:34 <tzanger>	Content-type: text/html
Apr 20 20:27:34 <tzanger>	X-Powered-By: PHP/4.3.1
Apr 20 20:27:38 <tzanger>	I'm already running 4.3.1
Apr 20 20:27:45 <tupshin>	that's hard, then ;-)
Apr 20 20:27:48 <tzanger>	question is whether I have ADODB support or not... I kind of doubt it
Apr 20 20:28:19 <tupshin>	"apt-get install libphp-adodb" ;-)
Apr 20 20:28:56 <tupshin>	cool...flyspray has jabber notifications
Apr 20 20:30:39 <tzanger>	ugh fuck I hate disorganized websites
Apr 20 20:30:50 <tzanger>	that's why I am phasing out php 
Apr 20 20:30:53 <tzanger>	(well except this systtem heh)
Apr 20 20:34:41 <tupshin>	i'm not generally a php fan
Apr 20 20:40:17 <tzanger>	nor I
Apr 20 20:40:28 <tzanger>	holy shit this has to be the easiest setup I've done in a long time
Apr 20 20:40:31 <tzanger>	messy but easy
Apr 20 20:45:35 -->	JeffBuhrt (~Jeff@user-0c93r5m.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #vexi
Apr 20 20:47:31 <JeffBuhrt>	What happened to the vexi jabber room?
Apr 20 20:48:38 <tzanger>	tupshin: ok
Apr 20 20:48:41 <tzanger>	bugs.vexi.org
Apr 20 20:48:49 <tzanger>	create yourself a user, you too Jeff please
Apr 20 20:48:56 <JeffBuhrt>	ok
Apr 20 20:48:56 <tupshin>	dunno...jeff..i'll recreate it
Apr 20 20:49:12 <JeffBuhrt>	It wanted me to recreate it.
Apr 20 20:49:18 <JeffBuhrt>	I figure I should ask.
Apr 20 20:49:30 <tupshin>	bugs.vexi.org doesn't resolve for me
Apr 20 20:50:02 <tzanger>	hmm might have to wait for DNS to update
Apr 20 20:50:32 <JeffBuhrt>	bugs.vexi.org isn't resolving (DNS). vexi.org is fine.
Apr 20 20:50:37 <JeffBuhrt>	ok
Apr 20 20:50:43 <tupshin>	recreated, jeff
Apr 20 20:50:46 <charlieg>	tupshin: see jabber im
Apr 20 20:53:19 <tzanger>	bugs.vexi.org should be there whenever DNS catches up
Apr 20 20:53:31 <tzanger>	so who wants to be the project "owner" ? :-)
Apr 20 20:54:03 <tupshin>	brian? for core? charlie, for widgets?
Apr 20 20:54:11 <tzanger>	and for the project?
Apr 20 20:54:16 <tupshin>	what's the project?
Apr 20 20:54:19 <tzanger>	vexi
Apr 20 20:54:24 <tupshin>	I really don't care
Apr 20 20:54:29 <charlieg>	i can admin that if you like tz
Apr 20 20:54:31 <tupshin>	I will if you want, but I have no idea what that means
Apr 20 20:54:37 <tzanger>	it's just a name really
Apr 20 20:54:39 <charlieg>	just give it to tupshin for now
Apr 20 20:54:47 <charlieg>	it can be fixed later if necessary ;)
Apr 20 20:54:54 <tupshin>	HEY
Apr 20 20:54:57 <tupshin>	i cannot be fixed
Apr 20 20:55:00 <tupshin>	i am not broken
Apr 20 20:55:12 <tupshin>	and no filing p1's about me
Apr 20 20:55:38 <tzanger>	hahaha
Apr 20 20:57:27 <tzanger>	ok the base is set up
Apr 20 20:57:42 <tupshin>	still no dns for bugs
Apr 20 20:57:46 <tzanger>	whenever you guys get accounts in there I'll add you to the admin group
Apr 20 20:57:55 <tzanger>	tupshin it should be if you query 209.47.196.37
Apr 20 20:58:49 <tzanger>	ns.uunet.ca has bugs
Apr 20 20:59:04 <tzanger>	ns.gt.ca has bugs
Apr 20 20:59:10 <tzanger>	wake your servers up :-)
Apr 20 21:03:44 <tupshin>	tzanger...my 2ndary dns isn't picking up a change from you even if i kick it...serial number increment?
Apr 20 21:07:37 <tzanger>	I did but let me do it again
Apr 20 21:07:57 <tzanger>	the serial I have is 200404201
Apr 20 21:08:07 <tzanger>	now 200402201
Apr 20 21:08:12 <tzanger>	er 200404202
Apr 20 21:08:20 <tupshin>	heh...very suspicious
Apr 20 21:09:24 <tupshin>	ok...I restarted my server, and I still have 200404191...wtf?
Apr 20 21:10:36 <tzanger>	delete the zone file
Apr 20 21:10:40 <tzanger>	I get named doing that sometimes
Apr 20 21:10:56 <tzanger>	it figures that "fuck I have had the file less than the expire period, I ain't taking an update"
Apr 20 21:11:11 <tupshin>	yeah...bind sucks sometimes
Apr 20 21:13:53 <tupshin>	all is well
Apr 20 21:14:21 <charlieg>	never heard of flyspray before
Apr 20 21:14:27 <tzanger>	psi uses it
Apr 20 21:14:34 <charlieg>	tzanger: how come you didn't use bugtrack?
Apr 20 21:14:46 <tzanger>	tupshin said he prefered flyspray
Apr 20 21:14:50 <charlieg>	k
Apr 20 21:14:55 <tupshin>	bugtrack == butt ugly
Apr 20 21:15:02 <charlieg>	it can be templated
Apr 20 21:15:10 <tzanger>	tupshin: well a theme change could fix that -- I think that flyspray's rather ugly myself
Apr 20 21:15:10 <charlieg>	i hope flyspray can as well
Apr 20 21:15:15 <tzanger>	yes it can
Apr 20 21:15:23 <tzanger>	just don't select the woodgrain theme... oh my lord
Apr 20 21:15:30 <charlieg>	tupshin: was there a functionality reason you preferred flyspray? ;)
Apr 20 21:17:10 <tupshin>	nah...it seemed sufficiently simple and functional...those were the main criteria
Apr 20 21:17:24 <tzanger>	did you want me to throw bugtrack up and compare the two?
Apr 20 21:17:44 <tupshin>	but tzanger...i'm not getting email verification, and authaticate.php is showing me code, and not anything useful
Apr 20 21:17:53 <tzanger>	I'm pretty agnostic -- bugtrack is simpler (and doesn't use PHP) but really I'm agnostic to the whole thing
Apr 20 21:17:57 <tzanger>	hmm
Apr 20 21:19:19 <tupshin>	i think i'm seeing the exact bug that one person with php reported to flyspray:
Apr 20 21:19:20 <tupshin>	http://flyspray.rocks.cc/bts/index.php?do=details&id=221
Apr 20 21:19:27 <tupshin>	one person with postgres, i mean
Apr 20 21:20:14 <tzanger>	yeah I see it too
Apr 20 21:20:50 <charlieg>	any luck with that .vexi tupshin?
Apr 20 21:25:48 <tzanger>	logged my data with that bug
Apr 20 21:25:56 <tzanger>	I'm gonna toss in bugtracker and see what it does
Apr 20 21:26:35 <--	chicmome has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Apr 20 21:26:51 <tupshin>	ok
Apr 20 21:27:59 <charlieg>	brb
Apr 20 21:29:42 <JeffBuhrt>	tzanger... DNS is ok for me now, but:
Apr 20 21:29:43 <JeffBuhrt>	http://bugs.vexi.org/
Apr 20 21:29:43 <JeffBuhrt>	Forbidden
Apr 20 21:29:43 <JeffBuhrt>	You don't have permission to access / on this server.
Apr 20 21:29:43 <JeffBuhrt>	Apache/1.3.26 Server at bugs.vexi.org Port 80
Apr 20 21:30:00 <tupshin>	i think he's tweaking and trying something else
Apr 20 21:30:11 <JeffBuhrt>	ok, np
Apr 20 21:30:18 <--	vexi has quit ("killed")
Apr 20 21:30:22 <--	charlieg has quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
Apr 20 21:31:59 -->	vexi (vexibot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 20 21:32:02 <tzanger>	JeffBuhrt: yeah I'm playing
Apr 20 21:37:14 <tzanger>	bugtrack's in and up
Apr 20 21:37:25 <tzanger>	1st problem - users need to be added by an admin
Apr 20 21:38:12 <tzanger>	nice and neat though
Apr 20 21:38:27 <tupshin>	bugs.vexi.org? not there yet
Apr 20 21:38:36 <tzanger>	yes it is :-)
Apr 20 21:39:11 <tupshin>	Forbidden
Apr 20 21:39:11 <tupshin>	You don't have permission to access / on this server.
Apr 20 21:39:11 <tupshin>	--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apr 20 21:39:14 <tupshin>	Apache/1.3.26 Server at bugs.vexi.org Port 80
Apr 20 21:39:20 <tzanger>	that is strange
Apr 20 21:39:30 <tzanger>	oh
Apr 20 21:39:31 <tzanger>	duh me
Apr 20 21:39:38 <tzanger>	 /bt.pl
Apr 20 21:39:43 <tzanger>	you will need a login though
Apr 20 21:40:12 <tzanger>	what do you want for a login?  tupshin?
Apr 20 21:40:17 <tupshin>	it asks for email
Apr 20 21:40:20 <tupshin>	so tupshin@tupshin.com
Apr 20 21:40:29 <tupshin>	but tupshin for user is always fine with me
Apr 20 21:40:43 <tzanger>	done
Apr 20 21:40:52 <tzanger>	tupshin/tupshin -- you should be able to alter your password
Apr 20 21:41:29 <tupshin>	invalid project
Apr 20 21:41:39 <tupshin>	vexi shows up in list
Apr 20 21:41:42 <tupshin>	and is selected
Apr 20 21:41:51 <tupshin>	but "invalid project" when I log in
Apr 20 21:42:00 <tzanger>	hmm I might have broken that
Apr 20 21:42:02 <tupshin>	do I have to be assigned as a meber of vexi?
Apr 20 21:42:06 <tupshin>	member
Apr 20 21:42:17 <tzanger>	try now?
Apr 20 21:42:28 <tupshin>	yup
Apr 20 21:42:34 <tzanger>	yup as in it works?
Apr 20 21:42:43 <tupshin>	works
Apr 20 21:42:54 <tupshin>	tried to change password:
Apr 20 21:42:54 <tupshin>	SYSTEM ERROR: DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: pg_atoi: zero-length string at lib/dbase.pm line 76. 
Apr 20 21:43:04 <JeffBuhrt>	bugs still forbidden from here
Apr 20 21:43:13 <tzanger>	JeffBuhrt: no  bugs.vexi.org/bt.pl
Apr 20 21:43:32 <tzanger>	hmm my password changed just fine
Apr 20 21:43:52 <tupshin>	fwiw, tzanger...it definitely uses email address as key, and "name" can be whatever, including your full name
Apr 20 21:43:53 <JeffBuhrt>	np
Apr 20 21:43:54 <tzanger>	jeff what's your email address
Apr 20 21:44:01 <JeffBuhrt>	buhrt@aftinc.net
Apr 20 21:44:27 <tzanger>	JeffBuhrt: ok your pass is jeff
Apr 20 21:44:35 <tupshin>	same change password problem for me
Apr 20 21:45:02 <tzanger>	this is a more cumbersome system I think, at least getting it set up anyway
Apr 20 21:45:12 <JeffBuhrt>	for bugs.vexi.org?
Apr 20 21:45:13 <tzanger>	tupshin: that is strange -- you're not trying to set a blank password?
Apr 20 21:45:17 <tzanger>	JeffBuhrt: yes
Apr 20 21:45:18 <tupshin>	nope
Apr 20 21:45:52 <JeffBuhrt>	I still get a server level error:
Apr 20 21:45:52 <JeffBuhrt>	http://bugs.vexi.org/
Apr 20 21:45:52 <JeffBuhrt>	Forbidden
Apr 20 21:45:52 <JeffBuhrt>	You don't have permission to access / on this server.
Apr 20 21:45:52 <JeffBuhrt>	Apache/1.3.26 Server at bugs.vexi.org Port 80
Apr 20 21:46:18 <tupshin>	(18:42:49) JeffBuhrt: bugs still forbidden from here
Apr 20 21:46:18 <tupshin>	(18:42:58) tzanger: JeffBuhrt: no  bugs.vexi.org/bt.pl
Apr 20 21:46:27 <tupshin>	no index file set up yet
Apr 20 21:46:38 <JeffBuhrt>	:)
Apr 20 21:47:16 <tzanger>	it is now
Apr 20 21:49:38 <tupshin>	tzanger...still no luck with pw...also, I tried as an experiment creating another account for myself, but got the same invalid project message...how can we create new users without that error?
Apr 20 21:50:01 <tzanger>	you need to assign the user to a project throught eh projects link on the left
Apr 20 21:50:04 <tupshin>	oh...I see
Apr 20 21:50:12 -->	charlieg (~charlie@host217-44-66-93.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) has joined #vexi
Apr 20 21:50:12 ---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to charlieg
Apr 20 21:50:46 <tupshin>	same error when I try to change password of 2nd user
Apr 20 21:50:47 <JeffBuhrt>	FYI tzanger... it worked fine for me
Apr 20 21:50:54 <tupshin>	password did, jeff?
Apr 20 21:50:57 <tupshin>	changing it?
Apr 20 21:51:19 <tzanger>	charlie: bugs.vexi.org: charlie@vexi.org/charlie, try to change your password after you log in by going to "Profile"
Apr 20 21:51:29 <tzanger>	er charlieg ^^
Apr 20 21:51:41 <charlieg>	whu
Apr 20 21:52:09 <JeffBuhrt>	I logged in, changed my pass, etc.
Apr 20 21:53:32 <tzanger>	anyway
Apr 20 21:53:34 <tzanger>	both systems are there
Apr 20 21:53:43 <charlieg>	SYSTEM ERROR: DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: pg_atoi: zero-length string at lib/dbase.pm line 76. 
Apr 20 21:53:46 <tzanger>	bugs.vexi.org/flyspray is flyspray...  I'm kind of torn between the two :-)
Apr 20 21:53:52 <charlieg>	(trying to change pass)
Apr 20 21:53:58 <tzanger>	hmmm tupshin and charlie both have the password problem
Apr 20 21:54:01 <charlieg>	tzanger: just setup mysql and use bugzilla... tried and tested ;)
Apr 20 21:54:02 <tupshin>	dangnabbit...I even tried a different browser
Apr 20 21:54:11 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 20 21:54:16 <tzanger>	charlie
Apr 20 21:54:20 <tzanger>	I changed your password to 12345
Apr 20 21:54:22 <tzanger>	try changing it now
Apr 20 21:54:51 <tzanger>	tupshin: I did the same thing to your tupshin account (not tupshin2) -- try changing it -- I am running on a huntch
Apr 20 21:54:54 <tzanger>	er hunch
Apr 20 21:54:55 <tupshin>	I don't suppose line 76 of lib/dbase.pm tells us anything interesting
Apr 20 21:55:11 <charlieg>	SYSTEM ERROR: DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: pg_atoi: zero-length string at lib/dbase.pm line 76. 
Apr 20 21:55:14 <tzanger>	    my $rc = $st->execute(@_);
Apr 20 21:55:16 <tzanger>	nope :-)
Apr 20 21:55:26 <tupshin>	same error
Apr 20 21:55:33 <tupshin>	hehe...not too useful
Apr 20 21:55:48 <charlieg>	i thought bugzilla were working on making it db agnostic?
Apr 20 21:55:59 <tupshin>	working on != working
Apr 20 21:56:21 <tzanger>	weird
Apr 20 21:56:22 <tupshin>	working on == working + n + o = working + no
Apr 20 21:56:31 <tzanger>	update users set email = ?, password = ?, name = ?, report_add = ?, report_edit = ?, report_delete = ?, filter_add = ?, filter_edit = ?, filter_delete = ?, project_add = ?, project_edit = ?, project_delete = ?, user_add = ?, user_edit = ?, user_delete = ? where id = ?
Apr 20 21:56:35 <tzanger>	that's what I got for the SQL
Apr 20 21:56:39 <JeffBuhrt>	Is flyspray supposed to error?
Apr 20 21:56:40 <JeffBuhrt>	...
Apr 20 21:56:40 <JeffBuhrt>	Query {INSERT INTO flyspray_registrations VALUES (?,?,?)} with params {, 1082510742, 4toXmI9SpbuIs} Failed! (ERROR:  pg_atoi: zero-length string
Apr 20 21:56:42 <tzanger>	no wonder it didn't work
Apr 20 21:56:47 <charlieg>	or not
Apr 20 21:56:56 <tzanger>	JeffBuhrt: no flyspray is not supposed to error like that
Apr 20 21:57:02 <JeffBuhrt>	;)
Apr 20 21:57:03 <tzanger>	there's a different bug in it regarding the registration process
Apr 20 21:57:15 <JeffBuhrt>	bug: bug system has bugs
Apr 20 21:57:23 <JeffBuhrt>	Panic: double panic
Apr 20 21:57:30 <tzanger>	that first parameter is blank though
Apr 20 21:57:35 <tzanger>	see the {, ?
Apr 20 21:58:07 <charlieg>	http://www.bugzilla.org/roadmap.html#help
Apr 20 21:58:14 <charlieg>	they are working on modularity
Apr 20 21:58:20 <charlieg>	not for the next stable version though
Apr 20 21:58:32 <tupshin>	yes...we've had this discussion...you were mia
Apr 20 21:59:07 <tupshin>	(17:04:23) tzanger: http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/142/1999/11/0/2908863/
Apr 20 21:59:07 <tupshin>	(17:04:38) tupshin: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98304
Apr 20 21:59:09 <tupshin>	;-)
Apr 20 22:00:04 <charlieg>	looks like 2.20 will have that
Apr 20 22:00:09 <charlieg>	which is too far away for us
Apr 20 22:00:14 <charlieg>	unless tz will relent with mysql
Apr 20 22:00:38 <charlieg>	by then there'll probably be threaded comments too ;)
Apr 20 22:00:41 <tupshin>	I like flyswat, or whatever it was...but it seems to have postgres bugs too
Apr 20 22:00:42 <tzanger>	charlie
Apr 20 22:00:45 <charlieg>	tzanger: bugzilla is written in perl :D
Apr 20 22:00:48 <tzanger>	try the password again?
Apr 20 22:00:52 <charlieg>	12345
Apr 20 22:00:53 <charlieg>	?
Apr 20 22:00:55 <tzanger>	yes
Apr 20 22:00:57 <tzanger>	try changing it
Apr 20 22:01:01 <tzanger>	tell me the big hairy error you get
Apr 20 22:01:24 <charlieg>	lol even worse!
Apr 20 22:01:27 <charlieg>	update users set email = ?, password = ?, name = ?, filter_id = ?, list_size = ?, notify = ? where id = ?: parameters are "charlie@vexi.org,Marie2203,Charles Goodwin,,100,1,6"
Apr 20 22:01:29 <tzanger>	no I added that
Apr 20 22:01:33 <tzanger>	now why do yo uhave blanks!
Apr 20 22:01:33 <charlieg>	SYSTEM ERROR: DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: pg_atoi: zero-length string at lib/dbase.pm line 77. 
Apr 20 22:01:53 <charlieg>	remove me tzanger and i'll reregister
Apr 20 22:01:56 <tzanger>	hmm I'm doing it as an admin, my sql's a little different
Apr 20 22:01:59 <tupshin>	no filter id
Apr 20 22:02:02 <tzanger>	yeah
Apr 20 22:02:47 <charlieg>	tell me when tzanger
Apr 20 22:03:00 <tupshin>	I created a filter, and selected it and I can updated my profile, including password
Apr 20 22:03:14 <tzanger>	ahhhhh
Apr 20 22:03:22 <tzanger>	I was editing it through the 'users' menu
Apr 20 22:03:40 <tzanger>	yeah that's a little gotcha
Apr 20 22:03:42 <tzanger>	heh
Apr 20 22:04:12 <tzanger>	yup that's all it needed
Apr 20 22:04:15 <tzanger>	good catch tupshin
Apr 20 22:04:16 <tupshin>	lol...we can see each other's passwords
Apr 20 22:04:38 <tzanger>	hahaha
Apr 20 22:04:40 <tzanger>	that's not right
Apr 20 22:05:00 <tzanger>	Unfortunately I don't think BugTrack is quite ready unless it's only us using it
Apr 20 22:05:04 <tzanger>	pity
Apr 20 22:05:07 <JeffBuhrt>	why not bugzilla?
Apr 20 22:05:08 <tupshin>	I think charlie is about to file a p1 against tzanger  without even realizing it
Apr 20 22:05:27 <tupshin>	jeff: mysql dependency...tzanger doesn't like it
Apr 20 22:05:29 <JeffBuhrt>	(other than 'it uses mySql'?)
Apr 20 22:05:33 <JeffBuhrt>	ah.
Apr 20 22:05:34 <tupshin>	that's it
Apr 20 22:05:43 <JeffBuhrt>	It bit him on the leg one day. Ok.
Apr 20 22:05:43 <tzanger>	it's just a matter of I am not familliar enough with it to trust it
Apr 20 22:05:53 <tupshin>	tzanger: care to debug that flycatcher/swatcher/sprayer/watchamcallit bug?
Apr 20 22:06:00 <tzanger>	we can work around the flyspray bug
Apr 20 22:06:05 <JeffBuhrt>	(vs bugtrack's cleartext passwords)
Apr 20 22:06:06 <charlieg>	even if it's just for the Vexi bugzilla tzanger?
Apr 20 22:06:23 <tzanger>	just don't require new users to confirm the email
Apr 20 22:06:25 <tupshin>	running it == running it
Apr 20 22:06:38 <tupshin>	charlie
Apr 20 22:07:08 <tupshin>	I'm no fan of bugzilla...just familiar with it
Apr 20 22:07:13 <tupshin>	it's as cludgy as can be
Apr 20 22:08:03 <charlieg>	hmm
Apr 20 22:08:10 <charlieg>	let me see if i can find you an alternative between than these two
Apr 20 22:08:27 <tupshin>	why are you opposed to flyspray if we get it to work?
Apr 20 22:09:15 <charlieg>	http://www.gnu.org/software/gnats/
Apr 20 22:09:21 <charlieg>	i'm not
Apr 20 22:09:29 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 22:09:37 <tupshin>	I mentioned gnats to tz earlier
Apr 20 22:09:41 <charlieg>	whatever works is good for me, but you shouldn't really have trouble getting it to work
Apr 20 22:09:53 <tupshin>	setup looks a bit odd, and ui is ugly, but it would probably be fine
Apr 20 22:10:05 <tzanger>	hmm that atoi thing only occurs with an invalid login
Apr 20 22:10:36 <tupshin>	flyspray seemed much faster than bugtrack too
Apr 20 22:10:43 <tzanger>	yes that is for damn sure
Apr 20 22:10:51 <tupshin>	I like responsiveness
Apr 20 22:11:12 <tzanger>	nope damn
Apr 20 22:11:20 <tupshin>	what's the error?
Apr 20 22:11:21 <tzanger>	registering when the code's not needed results in the same
Apr 20 22:11:26 <tzanger>	I bet I know the problem though ;-)
Apr 20 22:13:30 <tzanger>	nope I don't heh
Apr 20 22:13:34 <tupshin>	Query {SELECT user_name, real_name FROM flyspray_users WHERE user_id = ?} with params {} Failed! (ERROR: invalid input syntax for integer: "" 
Apr 20 22:13:39 <tupshin>	from the end of the bug report
Apr 20 22:13:51 <charlieg>	we could always just set up gforge - www.gforge.org
Apr 20 22:14:37 <charlieg>	http://btt.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:14:41 <tupshin>	tzanger...looks like postgres throws error when called with that line, while mysql calmy returns no records
Apr 20 22:14:54 <tzanger>	hmmm
Apr 20 22:14:59 <tupshin>	could add a line above it that set the var to -1 if it wasn't set at all
Apr 20 22:15:46 <tupshin>	psyching debugging without looking at source or the machine it's running on ;-)
Apr 20 22:15:49 <tupshin>	psychic
Apr 20 22:16:15 <tzanger>	yeah that's just what I am doing
Apr 20 22:16:15 <charlieg>	ugh this says everything about PHP users: http://buglist.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:16:36 <charlieg>	eyes... bleeding...
Apr 20 22:16:37 <tupshin>	that is the ugliest color scheme EVER
Apr 20 22:16:49 <charlieg>	http://coefficient.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:16:56 <tupshin>	bright pink on multiple shared of grayish blue????
Apr 20 22:17:27 <tupshin>	running tomcat, tzanger?
Apr 20 22:17:27 <charlieg>	http://dcl.sourceforge.net/index.php
Apr 20 22:17:44 <tzanger>	no tomcat
Apr 20 22:17:45 <charlieg>	http://helis.org/index.php
Apr 20 22:17:57 <tupshin>	helis requires mysql
Apr 20 22:18:04 <charlieg>	http://www.issue-tracker.com/
Apr 20 22:18:30 <charlieg>	http://otrs.org/
Apr 20 22:18:53 <tupshin>	dcl looks too oriented towards help desk stuff
Apr 20 22:19:18 *	tupshin is actually trying to evaluate them as fast as charlie can copy and paste ;-)
Apr 20 22:19:42 <tupshin>	issue-tracker demo isn't running
Apr 20 22:19:46 <charlieg>	http://www.mantisbt.org/
Apr 20 22:20:07 <tupshin>	ptrs os tpp je;[ desl
Apr 20 22:20:16 <tupshin>	mantis requires mysql
Apr 20 22:20:21 <tupshin>	c'mon...hurry it up, charlie
Apr 20 22:20:23 <tupshin>	i caught up
Apr 20 22:20:46 <charlieg>	ttp://phpbt.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:21:01 <tupshin>	fine slow me down with invalid urls
Apr 20 22:21:27 <charlieg>	http://webpages.charter.net/stuffle/linux/preps/preps.html
Apr 20 22:22:00 <tupshin>	phpbt might work
Apr 20 22:22:03 <charlieg>	http://www.bestpractical.com/
Apr 20 22:23:03 <charlieg>	http://roundup.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:23:06 <tupshin>	preps is not a web app
Apr 20 22:23:11 <charlieg>	http://www.franzoni.info/open/staff.html
Apr 20 22:23:26 <charlieg>	http://www.edgewall.com/products/trac/
Apr 20 22:23:34 <charlieg>	http://www.tutos.org/homepage/index.html
Apr 20 22:24:19 <tupshin>	best practical's rt is too featureful and hence complicated
Apr 20 22:24:26 <charlieg>	http://workbench.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:24:30 <tzanger>	slow down
Apr 20 22:24:36 <tzanger>	I am close to nailing this bug I think
Apr 20 22:24:56 <tupshin>	roundup looks too primitive
Apr 20 22:25:12 <tupshin>	can't slow down...it's charlie's fault
Apr 20 22:25:15 <charlieg>	http://yaktrack.sourceforge.net/
Apr 20 22:25:26 <tupshin>	franzoni requires mysql
Apr 20 22:25:32 <charlieg>	tzanger: we're 'filtering' them for you
Apr 20 22:25:44 <charlieg>	workbench looked interesting
Apr 20 22:26:00 <tupshin>	trac is too much of a framework (integrated subversion support...yack)
Apr 20 22:26:19 <tupshin>	and no...that wasn't a yaktrack joke
Apr 20 22:26:44 <tupshin>	tutos requires mysql
Apr 20 22:26:51 <charlieg>	pants, so does workbench
Apr 20 22:27:20 <charlieg>	ooo i wish php would rot and die
Apr 20 22:27:23 <tupshin>	yaktrack just isn't all that
Apr 20 22:28:11 <tupshin>	I wish Issue-tracker demo was running...I like the look of it
Apr 20 22:28:13 <tzanger>	well
Apr 20 22:28:21 <tupshin>	yes?
Apr 20 22:28:25 <tzanger>	I got the bug to go away -- you were exactly right... just not getting the user registerations though :-)
Apr 20 22:28:29 <tzanger>	er
Apr 20 22:28:29 <tzanger>	registrations
Apr 20 22:28:30 <tzanger>	heh
Apr 20 22:28:33 <tzanger>	getting tired here
Apr 20 22:28:44 <tupshin>	and now?
Apr 20 22:29:41 <charlieg>	tupshin: you could always host bugzilla (and install mysql) ;)
Apr 20 22:30:09 <tupshin>	I've actually already got it running...but as I said...I can't really guarantee great uptime right now
Apr 20 22:30:19 <charlieg>	98% is fine
Apr 20 22:30:29 <tupshin>	but I'm also going to be moving soon
Apr 20 22:30:36 <charlieg>	how soon?
Apr 20 22:30:38 <tupshin>	and might have a week of downtime
Apr 20 22:30:41 <tupshin>	1-2 months
Apr 20 22:30:58 <tupshin>	and, I don't like it ;-)
Apr 20 22:31:01 <tupshin>	bugzilla that is
Apr 20 22:31:17 <charlieg>	so it's getting flyspray to work then
Apr 20 22:31:18 <charlieg>	:D
Apr 20 22:31:23 <charlieg>	tzanger: any progress?
Apr 20 22:31:31 <tzanger>	almost
Apr 20 22:31:31 <tupshin>	tzanger...if flyspray is a no go, "issue-tracker" might be nice
Apr 20 22:31:38 <tzanger>	flyspray is || this close
Apr 20 22:31:42 <tzanger>	wtf
Apr 20 22:31:44 <tzanger>	php.org is one big ad
Apr 20 22:31:57 <tupshin>	woah
Apr 20 22:32:00 <tzanger>	php.net I suppose
Apr 20 22:32:11 <tupshin>	yeah
Apr 20 22:33:40 <charlieg>	you home yet tupshin?
Apr 20 22:33:52 <tupshin>	nah...otherwise I would have been afk for a bit
Apr 20 22:34:00 <tupshin>	I should probably go home, though ;-)
Apr 20 22:34:05 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 22:34:08 <tzanger>	array($_COOKIE['flyspray_userid'])
Apr 20 22:34:11 <tzanger>	that returns an array
Apr 20 22:34:17 <tzanger>	but it seems to be using it in scalar context
Apr 20 22:34:24 <tzanger>	i.e. that is what fills the ? in the query
Apr 20 22:34:31 <tzanger>	so how do I check if that is blank or null?
Apr 20 22:34:38 <tupshin>	what does php do with auto conversion...first value?
Apr 20 22:34:40 <tzanger>	array(...) == '' didn't do it :-)
Apr 20 22:34:44 <tzanger>	I think so
Apr 20 22:34:45 <tzanger>	must be
Apr 20 22:34:52 <tupshin>	you're talking to a php hater
Apr 20 22:35:03 <tzanger>	yeah me too
Apr 20 22:35:23 <tzanger>	yay!
Apr 20 22:35:25 <tupshin>	$my_array[0]. 
Apr 20 22:35:27 <tzanger>	I think I did it!
Apr 20 22:35:46 <tupshin>	show us the goods, man ;-)
Apr 20 22:36:28 <tzanger>	it's WAY ugly :-)
Apr 20 22:36:32 <tupshin>	?
Apr 20 22:36:35 <tzanger>	$get_current_username = $fs->dbQuery("SELECT user_name, real_name FROM flyspray_users WHERE user_id = ?", array($_COOKIE['flyspray_userid']) == array('') ? array(-1) : array($_COOKIE['flyspray_userid']));
Apr 20 22:36:42 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 20 22:36:50 <tupshin>	so my guess based on the bug report was right?
Apr 20 22:36:53 <tzanger>	not perfect but it does let new users log in
Apr 20 22:36:59 <tzanger>	yes tupshin it was perfectly correct
Apr 20 22:37:15 <tupshin>	want to update the flyspray bug, or shall i?
Apr 20 22:37:46 <tupshin>	and was that line the only thing that changed?
Apr 20 22:38:25 <tzanger>	I did
Apr 20 22:38:29 <tzanger>	and that's all I canged
Apr 20 22:38:30 <tupshin>	great
Apr 20 22:38:31 <tzanger>	er changed
Apr 20 22:38:49 <tupshin>	o
Apr 20 22:40:43 <tupshin>	i'm gonna go home...hopefully I can log some bugs when I get there ;-)
Apr 20 22:41:39 <--	tupshin has quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
Apr 20 22:41:46 <tzanger>	fixed the bogus login bug too
Apr 20 22:45:49 <tzanger>	I don't think that jabber notifications will work quite yet, since I haven't registered that user on the jabber server
Apr 20 22:47:33 <charlieg>	so it should be working well now tzanger?
Apr 20 22:48:50 <tzanger>	yes I am moving it from /flyspray to / again though just hang on a mo
Apr 20 22:49:00 <charlieg>	np
Apr 20 22:49:33 <tzanger>	ok 
Apr 20 22:49:33 <tzanger>	done
Apr 20 22:49:38 <tzanger>	bugs.vexi.org
Apr 20 22:50:08 <tzanger>	stop posting to ibex-core, ok?  :-)
Apr 20 22:50:27 <charlieg>	sure ;)
Apr 20 22:50:47 <--	sclark (~stuart@cpc1-shep3-6-0-cust8.nott.cable.ntl.com) has left #vexi
Apr 20 22:51:49 <JeffBuhrt>	No errors on registering and I am logged in.
Apr 20 22:52:15 <charlieg>	yup
Apr 20 22:52:18 <charlieg>	logged in here too
Apr 20 22:53:19 <charlieg>	tzanger: the categories, can you change 'Backend / Core' to just 'Core'?
Apr 20 22:54:47 <charlieg>	tzanger: also, what about admin
Apr 20 22:54:53 <charlieg>	ie somebody who can manage the users
Apr 20 22:54:55 <charlieg>	give out rights
Apr 20 22:55:06 <charlieg>	do you want to do all that or do you wanna give somebody like me the power
Apr 20 22:55:22 <charlieg>	my username is 'charlie' on flyspray
Apr 20 22:55:36 <JeffBuhrt>	Charlie: it is nice you have the 'power', but let tzanger help ;)
Apr 20 22:55:43 <JeffBuhrt>	(you are doing widgets)
Apr 20 22:55:56 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 22:56:09 <charlieg>	it's just that, atm, i can't confirm a bug
Apr 20 22:56:16 <charlieg>	or assign it
Apr 20 22:56:20 <charlieg>	or anything other than enter it
Apr 20 22:56:33 <JeffBuhrt>	(those would be helpful)
Apr 20 22:57:58 <charlieg>	i can't even upload attachments
Apr 20 22:59:38 *	charlieg nudges tzanger
Apr 20 23:00:01 <charlieg>	hmm people hammer bugzilla but it does work and works well
Apr 20 23:02:06 <tzanger>	ah?
Apr 20 23:02:10 <tzanger>	er eh?
Apr 20 23:02:48 <charlieg>	tzanger: as a user i'm completely impotent with flyspray, need more priveliges :)
Apr 20 23:03:06 <tzanger>	charlie you're an admin now
Apr 20 23:03:18 <tzanger>	and JeffBuhrt a developer
Apr 20 23:03:24 <charlieg>	cool
Apr 20 23:03:27 <charlieg>	thanks tzanger
Apr 20 23:04:40 <charlieg>	tzanger: There was an error uploading your file. Perhaps the permissions on the attachments/ directory are incorrect.
Apr 20 23:05:22 <JeffBuhrt>	night
Apr 20 23:05:39 <charlieg>	'night JeffBuhrt
Apr 20 23:05:42 <JeffBuhrt>	tzanger, sounds fine
Apr 20 23:06:35 <--	JeffBuhrt has quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
Apr 20 23:08:34 *	charlieg prods tzanger
Apr 20 23:10:42 *	charlieg pokes tzanger with a stick
Apr 20 23:11:18 <tzanger>	jeez
Apr 20 23:11:20 <tzanger>	don't you sleep
Apr 20 23:11:40 <tzanger>	try now
Apr 20 23:17:10 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 23:17:14 <charlieg>	sleep is for the weak ;)
Apr 20 23:17:20 <tzanger>	I am weak
Apr 20 23:17:33 <tzanger>	but I carry a big server
Apr 20 23:17:48 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 23:17:54 <charlieg>	flyspray is alright
Apr 20 23:18:05 <charlieg>	it's like bugzilla but a little lighter
Apr 20 23:18:06 <tzanger>	yeah it's pretty good for a pHP project :-)
Apr 20 23:18:29 <charlieg>	still, you shoulda challenged yourself, and gone with bugzilla + experimental postgresql patches
Apr 20 23:18:42 <charlieg>	since bz is in perl, you coulda had more fun with that ;)
Apr 20 23:18:50 <tzanger>	ha
Apr 20 23:19:02 <tzanger>	I wanted to get this stuff up and working, not become a source of delay and problem :-)
Apr 20 23:19:25 <tzanger>	http://www.noahgrey.com/greysoft/  have you seen that?
Apr 20 23:19:52 <charlieg>	i'd heard of it
Apr 20 23:20:24 <charlieg>	looks good... still blog software looks the same to me
Apr 20 23:20:30 <charlieg>	that... wordpress... moveabletype...
Apr 20 23:20:33 <tzanger>	true nuff
Apr 20 23:21:16 <tzanger>	"we complete your nihilist"  wtf??
Apr 20 23:22:02 <tzanger>	spam is so odd sometimes
Apr 20 23:23:10 <charlieg>	server down tzanger?
Apr 20 23:23:18 <charlieg>	or just slow connection
Apr 20 23:23:18 <tzanger>	?
Apr 20 23:23:20 <tzanger>	no
Apr 20 23:23:20 <charlieg>	nm
Apr 20 23:23:25 <tzanger>	and the T1's empty
Apr 20 23:23:27 <charlieg>	probably my side :D
Apr 20 23:23:44 <tzanger>	if you stop sharing all those porn videos you'll find your interactive sessions go better
Apr 20 23:24:18 <charlieg>	uploaded fine tz :)
Apr 20 23:25:54 <charlieg>	tzanger: should we do podwiki for the website?
Apr 20 23:26:05 <charlieg>	!google podwiki
Apr 20 23:26:06 <tzanger>	I dunno yet
Apr 20 23:26:09 <vexi>	podwiki: http://www.daemon.de/PodWiki
Apr 20 23:26:14 <tzanger>	wiki.benshaw.com
Apr 20 23:26:26 <charlieg>	i think we should
Apr 20 23:26:31 <charlieg>	we can customise the look enough
Apr 20 23:26:38 <charlieg>	and we can easily maintain it as a group
Apr 20 23:26:39 <tzanger>	you can completely customize it
Apr 20 23:26:41 <charlieg>	and limit access
Apr 20 23:26:51 <tzanger>	yeah there's a bunch of stuff on benshaw's you don't see
Apr 20 23:26:52 <charlieg>	i think we just want something flexible like that
Apr 20 23:26:52 <tzanger>	:-)
Apr 20 23:26:57 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 23:27:07 <charlieg>	would you mind setting up vexi.org as a podwiki then?
Apr 20 23:27:08 <tzanger>	I like it because there's no db -- I mean I love DB but for stuff like that it seems overkill
Apr 20 23:27:13 <charlieg>	yeah
Apr 20 23:27:15 <charlieg>	definitely
Apr 20 23:27:18 <tzanger>	even bugzilla until you have a bazillion bugs and projects
Apr 20 23:27:35 <charlieg>	i wish, though, that we could share user identities across all these 'sub bits'
Apr 20 23:27:56 <charlieg>	it's annoying having to sort out user info for each list, for bugzilla, and now for the wiki :)
Apr 20 23:28:03 <charlieg>	still i guess it's a one-time only thing
Apr 20 23:28:40 <tzanger>	yeah
Apr 20 23:28:46 <tzanger>	I got nss-ldap working though for slackware
Apr 20 23:28:55 <tzanger>	useless for this, but very useful for what I am doing :-)
Apr 20 23:29:15 -->	tupshin (~tupshin@adsl-67-114-19-185.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #vexi
Apr 20 23:29:15 ---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to tupshin
Apr 20 23:29:27 <tupshin>	hola...que pasa?
Apr 20 23:29:55 <tupshin>	ooh..flyspray works..great
Apr 20 23:30:17 <tupshin>	thank you very much, tznager
Apr 20 23:30:24 <tupshin>	even if I can't spell your name
Apr 20 23:30:30 <tzanger>	andrew will do :-)
Apr 20 23:30:39 <tupshin>	ok anderw
Apr 20 23:30:49 <tzanger>	:-)
Apr 20 23:31:03 <charlieg>	hey tupshin
Apr 20 23:31:11 <charlieg>	tzanger: check out this gay error
Apr 20 23:31:12 <tupshin>	ahoy
Apr 20 23:31:12 <charlieg>	Error while 'Updating vfolders for uri: imap://charlie%40mixdown.ca@mail.mixdown.ca/INBOX':
Apr 20 23:31:12 <charlieg>	Server unexpectedly disconnected: Success
Apr 20 23:31:19 <charlieg>	"Success"???
Apr 20 23:31:23 <charlieg>	how is that an error?
Apr 20 23:31:25 <tupshin>	hehe
Apr 20 23:31:26 <tzanger>	that's alright, I almost constantly correct my typing of your name.  Typship is usually what happens :-)
Apr 20 23:31:30 <tzanger>	charlieg: good old errno
Apr 20 23:31:35 <tupshin>	typship???
Apr 20 23:31:40 <charlieg>	tupshin: before we start logging loadsa bugs
Apr 20 23:31:46 <tupshin>	?
Apr 20 23:31:47 <charlieg>	just want to make sure it's organised properly
Apr 20 23:31:56 <charlieg>	you have components and then you have categories
Apr 20 23:31:59 <tupshin>	I think number 1 comes first, and everything else comes afterwards
Apr 20 23:32:06 <charlieg>	you have 'products' rather, then categories
Apr 20 23:32:11 <charlieg>	i think that 'Core' should be a product
Apr 20 23:32:26 <charlieg>	with categories like 'JS', 'XML', 'Box'
Apr 20 23:32:32 <charlieg>	then with Widgets as a product
Apr 20 23:32:34 <tupshin>	you mean project, not product?
Apr 20 23:32:51 <tupshin>	if so, I agree
Apr 20 23:32:52 <charlieg>	with 'Text', 'Theme', etc
Apr 20 23:33:02 <charlieg>	ok
Apr 20 23:33:06 <charlieg>	i'll organise it as such
Apr 20 23:33:06 <tupshin>	right now, there is one *project*, Vexi
Apr 20 23:33:12 <charlieg>	tupshin: can you register?
Apr 20 23:33:54 <tupshin>	done
Apr 20 23:34:31 <tupshin>	you didn't answer my questions, though
Apr 20 23:35:09 <charlieg>	why one tupshin?
Apr 20 23:35:17 <tupshin>	(20:29:35) tupshin: you mean project, not product?
Apr 20 23:35:18 <charlieg>	*which
Apr 20 23:35:20 <charlieg>	yes, project
Apr 20 23:35:21 <charlieg>	sorry
Apr 20 23:35:22 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 23:35:23 <tupshin>	k
Apr 20 23:35:24 <tupshin>	good
Apr 20 23:35:38 <charlieg>	product == output of project
Apr 20 23:35:39 <charlieg>	;)
Apr 20 23:35:52 ---	tzanger is now known as tz-afk
Apr 20 23:35:55 <tz-afk>	'night guys
Apr 20 23:35:57 <charlieg>	'night tz-afk
Apr 20 23:35:59 <charlieg>	thanks!
Apr 20 23:36:00 <tupshin>	cya and thanks
Apr 20 23:36:25 <tz-afk>	no problem -- I like being able to help
Apr 20 23:36:45 <charlieg>	ooo you can count on us needing help ;)
Apr 20 23:36:54 <tupshin>	damn...I keep picturing him with 10 foot long arms when he does that
Apr 20 23:36:55 <charlieg>	tz-afk: we'll do the wiki tomorrow, yeah? :D
Apr 20 23:37:01 <tz-afk>	yeah
Apr 20 23:38:06 <charlieg>	tupshin: what would you say describes the 'core components'... 'Vexi Core Components'?
Apr 20 23:38:20 <tupshin>	Vexi Core Engine?
Apr 20 23:38:23 <charlieg>	core components as in nestedvm, xml parser, js interpreter
Apr 20 23:38:25 <charlieg>	ok
Apr 20 23:38:35 <charlieg>	would you put the launcher in with that?
Apr 20 23:38:41 <tupshin>	probably not
Apr 20 23:38:44 <tupshin>	but not sure
Apr 20 23:38:56 <tupshin>	no
Apr 20 23:38:59 <tupshin>	separate component
Apr 20 23:39:10 <tz-afk>	wildebest 
Apr 20 23:39:17 <tupshin>	everything around distribution/install would be a component
Apr 20 23:39:21 <tz-afk>	the modular shit
Apr 20 23:39:23 <charlieg>	yeah
Apr 20 23:39:29 <charlieg>	i agree tupshin
Apr 20 23:40:51 <charlieg>	1st task for tupshin, whilst i play with flyspray, is to look at that .vexi i sent him ;)
Apr 20 23:40:58 <tupshin>	doing so
Apr 20 23:42:02 <tupshin>	you get the fun part...whaaahh
Apr 20 23:42:25 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 20 23:46:50 <charlieg>	tupshin: could you mail core@vexi.org asking people (well, brian and david) to register with bugs.vexi.org?
Apr 20 23:47:04 <charlieg>	(i'm having trouble atm with my mailbox)
Apr 20 23:47:13 <charlieg>	(it keeps reporting 'Success')
Apr 20 23:47:29 <tupshin>	lol...we're relying on you to do coding and you can't even operate a mail program? ;-)
Apr 20 23:47:49 <charlieg>	i think there's a net issue somewhere... bugs.vexi.org is going really slow for me
Apr 20 23:48:00 <charlieg>	tho tz said his t1 pipe was completely open
Apr 20 23:48:04 <tupshin>	fast for me
Apr 20 23:49:04 <charlieg>	it's taking 20-30s for each page to load for me
Apr 20 23:49:30 <tupshin>	about 1.5 seconds per page here
Apr 20 23:51:51 <charlieg>	i kinda like flyspray :)
Apr 20 23:53:05 <tupshin>	i thought you would
Apr 20 23:53:26 <tupshin>	i'm good at evaluating via a "first impression"
Apr 20 23:53:38 <tupshin>	and it is quite fast if the connection is working well
Apr 20 23:56:08 <charlieg>	hmm
Apr 20 23:56:11 <charlieg>	categories for the widgest
Apr 20 23:56:35 <charlieg>	utils, library, theme, demos
Apr 20 23:57:21 <charlieg>	and general
Apr 20 23:57:25 <tupshin>	I would actually break demos out into it's own project once we have demos
Apr 20 23:57:36 <tupshin>	application != widgets
Apr 20 23:58:04 <tupshin>	because then demos can have their own subcategories, one for each demo
Apr 20 23:58:10 <charlieg>	ok
Apr 20 23:58:33 <tupshin>	other than that, sounds good
Apr 20 23:58:43 <charlieg>	oh, and 'text'
Apr 21 00:00:15 <charlieg>	has that .vexi helped tupshin?
Apr 21 00:01:12 <charlieg>	hmm
Apr 21 00:01:17 <charlieg>	tupshin: just had a thought
Apr 21 00:01:30 <charlieg>	does flyspray let us forward notification?
Apr 21 00:02:46 <tupshin>	so with gone.vexi, if you specify dimensions on <test>, then everything works 
Apr 21 00:02:56 <tupshin>	but with no dimensions there, everyting inside collapses
Apr 21 00:03:16 <tupshin>	wtf is forward notification?
Apr 21 00:08:17 <charlieg>	tupshin: in bugzilla components had QA contacts
Apr 21 00:08:25 <charlieg>	so that if a bug was filed against a component, it emailed the QA contact
Apr 21 00:08:42 <charlieg>	that's what i mean... what's flyspray's equivalent of QA contacts?
Apr 21 00:08:54 <tupshin>	what's the purpose?
Apr 21 00:09:22 <charlieg>	so, for instance, i can just subscribe to core-bugs@vexi.org, and get notified of all core bugs
Apr 21 00:09:34 <charlieg>	or to widget-bugs, etc
Apr 21 00:10:37 <tupshin>	ouch...widgets color scheme in flyspray...eyes bleeding
Apr 21 00:10:49 <tupshin>	I don't see a way to do that
Apr 21 00:12:11 <charlieg>	ok resetting the theme for widgets stuff :)
Apr 21 00:13:38 <charlieg>	tupshin: as a 3rd and final project, 'Vexi Platform', which should contain Launcher, Website, Tutorials, Reference?
Apr 21 00:13:58 <tupshin>	Hmmm...I don't know
Apr 21 00:14:13 <charlieg>	or should we separate all the web stuff from Vexi Platform
Apr 21 00:14:17 <tupshin>	I don't see a reason not to have launcher it's own project
Apr 21 00:14:22 <tupshin>	yeah
Apr 21 00:14:34 <charlieg>	the launcher has no sub projects though
Apr 21 00:14:54 <tupshin>	doesn't it?
Apr 21 00:15:11 <charlieg>	nope, it's fairly simple
Apr 21 00:15:29 <tupshin>	activex versions, mozilla installer, different operating systems
Apr 21 00:15:29 <charlieg>	i mean, you do have a java version and an activex version, but this stuff can all be described by 'OS'
Apr 21 00:15:46 <tupshin>	launcher = project
Apr 21 00:15:50 <charlieg>	Ok
Apr 21 00:15:51 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 21 00:15:51 <tupshin>	makes sense to have subprojects
Apr 21 00:16:14 <tupshin>	and web would be a project
Apr 21 00:16:20 <tupshin>	and documentation would be a project
Apr 21 00:16:30 <charlieg>	ok
Apr 21 00:19:55 <tupshin>	how about just "Vexi Core" instead of vexi core components?
Apr 21 00:20:40 <charlieg>	ok
Apr 21 00:20:41 <tupshin>	much better
Apr 21 00:20:44 <tupshin>	i dd it
Apr 21 00:20:46 <tupshin>	did
Apr 21 00:27:24 <tupshin>	so charlie...working hypothesis regarding the "gone" bug: content that is put inside a box by a redirect does not get allocated any size that wouldn't have been allocated to it by it's container otherwise...that was poorly stated, but hopefully you get the idea...does that make sense to you?
Apr 21 00:28:35 <tupshin>	so basically, redirecting new content inside a box doesn't trigger a resize/repack
Apr 21 00:30:20 <--	vexi has quit ("killed")
Apr 21 00:30:37 <tupshin>	charlieg: what is core category within core project represent?
Apr 21 00:31:01 <charlieg>	the src/org/ibex/core/* java files
Apr 21 00:31:05 <charlieg>	like Box.java etc
Apr 21 00:31:15 <tupshin>	ok...fair enough
Apr 21 00:31:44 -->	vexi (vexibot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 21 00:31:55 <tupshin>	if david doesn't want the reference, I could probably own that...I'll let him weigh in on that, though
Apr 21 00:32:17 <tupshin>	and look above regarding bug we were talking about
Apr 21 00:32:31 <charlieg>	not sure i understand it tupshin
Apr 21 00:32:39 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 21 00:32:49 <charlieg>	is it fixable?
Apr 21 00:32:51 <tupshin>	well...do you agree that redirects hold the key to the bug?
Apr 21 00:32:57 <charlieg>	i reckon so
Apr 21 00:33:13 <tupshin>	otherwise, a simpler test case should have worked, right?
Apr 21 00:33:17 <charlieg>	right
Apr 21 00:33:36 <charlieg>	if you just call border-img direct in main.t (replacing test) then it works fine
Apr 21 00:34:09 <charlieg>	thing is tupshin, it's gotta be something adam broke recently
Apr 21 00:34:15 <charlieg>	as it works fine for non-simplex
Apr 21 00:34:31 <charlieg>	which would imply (possibly incorrectly) that simplex reflow is causing it
Apr 21 00:34:57 <tupshin>	or that optimizing the redraw/resize stuff causd it
Apr 21 00:39:11 <charlieg>	maybe
Apr 21 00:39:14 <charlieg>	probably tupshin
Apr 21 00:39:16 <charlieg>	that's a good point
Apr 21 00:39:22 <charlieg>	is there anything suspicious in that code?
Apr 21 00:40:26 <tupshin>	not sure yet...still playing with permutations of your test 
Apr 21 00:42:26 <tupshin>	how bizarre...if you remove the top or bottom row of boxes in border-img.t it works fine too
Apr 21 00:44:01 <tupshin>	heh...interesting
Apr 21 00:44:16 <tupshin>	if you make the contents of border-img be this:
Apr 21 00:44:16 <tupshin>	    <ui:box rows="3" redirect="$content">
Apr 21 00:44:16 <tupshin>	        // top row
Apr 21 00:44:16 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="nw" shrink="true" text="1"/>
Apr 21 00:44:17 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ww" hshrink="true" text="2"/>
Apr 21 00:44:19 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="sw" shrink="true" text="3"/>
Apr 21 00:44:23 <tupshin>	        // middle row
Apr 21 00:44:26 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="nn" vshrink="true" text="4"/>
Apr 21 00:44:27 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="content" />
Apr 21 00:44:29 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ss" vshrink="true" text="6"/>
Apr 21 00:44:33 <tupshin>	        // bottom row
Apr 21 00:44:35 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ne" shrink="true" text="7"/>
Apr 21 00:44:37 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ee" hshrink="true" text="8"/>
Apr 21 00:44:39 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="se" shrink="true" text="9"/>
Apr 21 00:44:41 <tupshin>	        
Apr 21 00:44:44 <tupshin>	    </ui:box>
Apr 21 00:44:47 <tupshin>	then the text in $content is partly visible, but only to the extent that is allowed by the size of the numbered boxes around it
Apr 21 00:45:06 <balliet>	i think i just sent a message to core@vexi with brian@brianweb.net as the From: address.. it probably needs to be approved or something. i just resubscrived with brian@brianweb.net so i don't have to worry about this again
Apr 21 00:45:29 <tupshin>	tzanger would have to do that, and he's afk
Apr 21 00:45:37 <balliet>	sorry i haven't had a chance to respond to all your emails... i've been a little busy today
Apr 21 00:45:41 <tupshin>	np
Apr 21 00:45:44 <tupshin>	things going well
Apr 21 00:45:46 <tupshin>	with us
Apr 21 00:45:52 <tupshin>	nice bug tracking now
Apr 21 00:45:54 <tupshin>	did you see?
Apr 21 00:45:57 <balliet>	basically i said i think graphics should be part of core for bugzilla
Apr 21 00:46:11 <balliet>	yeah, i saw the bug tracking thing. looks cool
Apr 21 00:46:17 <balliet>	i made an account
Apr 21 00:46:25 <tupshin>	well...that's just how the org.ibex/ is laid out...separate core and graphics namespaces
Apr 21 00:46:50 <balliet>	maybe i misunderstood charlie's message
Apr 21 00:47:19 <balliet>	he wants core and graphics to be separate components in flyspray right?
Apr 21 00:47:58 <tupshin>	in core src:
Apr 21 00:47:58 <tupshin>	ls org/ibex/
Apr 21 00:48:01 <tupshin>	core  graphics  js  net  plat  util
Apr 21 00:48:07 <balliet>	right, i get that part
Apr 21 00:48:11 <tupshin>	he's basically just mirroring that
Apr 21 00:48:28 <charlieg>	balliet: i put graphics as a separate category mainly because of SVG
Apr 21 00:48:31 <tupshin>	and graphics is very different than the core stuff right now
Apr 21 00:48:47 <charlieg>	and there is org/ibex/core and org/ibex/graphics ;)
Apr 21 00:48:53 <tupshin>	there's plenty in graphics
Apr 21 00:49:01 <tupshin>	Affine.java  Font.java   GIF.java   PNG.java    Path.java     PixelBuffer.java  Surface.java
Apr 21 00:49:01 <tupshin>	Color.java   Freetype.c  HTML.java  Paint.java  Picture.java  SVG.java
Apr 21 00:49:02 <balliet>	oh, right. svg. i guess that is pretty big
Apr 21 00:49:02 <charlieg>	how's things with you balliet?
Apr 21 00:49:18 <balliet>	ok, forget what i said. keep graphics separate 
Apr 21 00:49:23 <tupshin>	;-)
Apr 21 00:49:26 <charlieg>	how's that thing that some people are hindered by... what is it... i forget.... real strife or real life or something
Apr 21 00:49:33 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 21 00:49:34 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 21 00:49:37 <balliet>	heh
Apr 21 00:49:44 <balliet>	thinks are pretty good
Apr 21 00:49:47 <balliet>	things
Apr 21 00:49:50 <charlieg>	cool
Apr 21 00:50:41 <tupshin>	charlieg: try replacing the contents of border-img.t with the code i pasted above(sans ibex tag)
Apr 21 00:50:46 <charlieg>	you up to anything interesting lately balliet, non-ibex/vexi related?
Apr 21 00:51:00 <charlieg>	i saw tupshin, messed up
Apr 21 00:51:06 <balliet>	not really
Apr 21 00:51:06 <tupshin>	but in an interesting way
Apr 21 00:52:41 <charlieg>	hmm, bugs that need logging... surface trapping, error reporting, XMLExn catching, SOAP support
Apr 21 00:53:05 <tupshin>	enjoy ;-)
Apr 21 00:53:09 <tupshin>	i'm busy ;-)
Apr 21 00:53:21 <charlieg>	:D
Apr 21 00:53:25 <balliet>	uhhh.. me too, yeah, that's it. happy fixing charlie 
Apr 21 00:53:30 <tupshin>	roflmao
Apr 21 00:53:45 <charlieg>	tupshin, d'ya think we should have a separate category for 'Error Reporting' in Vexi Core?
Apr 21 00:53:53 <tupshin>	yes
Apr 21 00:53:58 <tupshin>	error handling, actually
Apr 21 00:54:05 <charlieg>	Error Handling then
Apr 21 00:54:09 <tupshin>	to include both how errors are caught and reported
Apr 21 00:55:58 <tupshin>	brian...would you have a fit if I suggested ditching the preprocessor? It seems so harmful to me
Apr 21 00:56:27 <balliet>	actually i think i would :)
Apr 21 00:56:34 <tupshin>	sigh
Apr 21 00:56:57 <balliet>	the switcing on strings thing is really handy
Apr 21 00:57:02 <balliet>	switching
Apr 21 00:57:15 <tupshin>	that's the *only* place it might be considered valuable
Apr 21 00:57:48 <balliet>	what about box.java? aren't there tons of calculations that need to be done for both width/height, etc?
Apr 21 00:57:59 <balliet>	i admit it is kind of ugly
Apr 21 00:58:04 <tupshin>	some, not tons
Apr 21 00:58:05 <balliet>	but handy nonetheless
Apr 21 00:58:48 <tupshin>	my main objections, are how it makes the code much harder for new people to understand, and that it precludes using automated tools/ides to work on the code
Apr 21 00:59:35 <charlieg>	perhaps there's a compromise to be hit tupshin
Apr 21 00:59:56 <balliet>	it does, but i still think its advantages outweigh the disadvantages. i'll think about it some more though 
Apr 21 00:59:58 <charlieg>	perhaps we should separate the build process and the preprocessing
Apr 21 01:00:07 <tupshin>	ok...thinking about it is all I ask at the moment
Apr 21 01:00:10 <charlieg>	# preprocess
Apr 21 01:00:13 <charlieg>	# make Java2
Apr 21 01:00:23 <charlieg>	that way there'd be an elegant way to get at the valid Java
Apr 21 01:00:26 <balliet>	and what does that solve?
Apr 21 01:00:30 <tupshin>	nothing
Apr 21 01:00:31 <charlieg>	whilst not losing the advantages of the preprocessor
Apr 21 01:00:35 <charlieg>	fine
Apr 21 01:00:41 <charlieg>	i'll be quiet!
Apr 21 01:00:46 <balliet>	ha
Apr 21 01:00:49 <tupshin>	I can work on the procesed source in build/java/ today
Apr 21 01:00:50 <tupshin>	and I do
Apr 21 01:01:07 <tupshin>	but if I want to work there, then I have to backport my changes to the unpreprocessed versions
Apr 21 01:01:28 <balliet>	sounds like a solution for that lens stuff in that paper that adam posted a while back
Apr 21 01:01:31 *	charlieg whispers that tupshin might want to post a coherent argument against preprocessing to the list
Apr 21 01:01:35 <tupshin>	inded, brian
Apr 21 01:01:47 <balliet>	i'm not serious though obviously, that'd just make things way too complicated 
Apr 21 01:02:01 <tupshin>	perfect in theory, you mean to say
Apr 21 01:02:04 <balliet>	right
Apr 21 01:03:08 <tupshin>	right now, I'm staring at Box.java in build/java, after having reformatted its source, so I can do some experimentation on it, and be able to step through it with a debugger
Apr 21 01:03:24 <tupshin>	seems silly
Apr 21 01:03:51 <tupshin>	brian...is that switch approach for strings really substantialy faster than other approaches?
Apr 21 01:03:52 <balliet>	debuggers are for wimps.. real men just use a lot of printf's (i probably botched that quote..)
Apr 21 01:04:08 <tupshin>	lol...then I used to be a real man, but got wimpy in my old age
Apr 21 01:04:43 <balliet>	it is a lot faster, but i doubt that is really a bottleneck 
Apr 21 01:04:59 <balliet>	it looks a lot nicer too
Apr 21 01:05:02 <tupshin>	exactly my though...I had a sneaking suspicion that approach was adopted because it was cool
Apr 21 01:05:07 <tupshin>	it does not look nicer
Apr 21 01:05:36 <balliet>	really? if(key.equals("foo")) { whatever; } is better than case "foo": whatever? 
Apr 21 01:06:34 <tupshin>	you could use case without the 9000 levels of nested case
Apr 21 01:06:52 <charlieg>	balliet: real man just use Log.info(Box.class, "you real man")
Apr 21 01:07:30 <balliet>	printf... Log.info.. same thing
Apr 21 01:07:36 <charlieg>	hmm that sounded better in my head using Ali G's alter ego, Boris from kazahkstan
Apr 21 01:07:53 <charlieg>	(as the voice)
Apr 21 01:08:27 <balliet>	tupshin, what do you mean by use case without the 9000 levels? 
Apr 21 01:08:44 <tupshin>	the preprocessd files...have deeply nested switch statements
Apr 21 01:09:03 <charlieg>	i want to do something similar to this as soon as the wiki is working well: http://www.inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Roadmap
Apr 21 01:09:07 <tupshin>	you could switch on the full strings with a tiny performance cost
Apr 21 01:09:13 <charlieg>	so we can put together a coherent plan
Apr 21 01:09:57 <balliet>	yeah, you probably could generate easier to read code
Apr 21 01:10:22 <balliet>	but you're still going to be stuck cramming tons of stuff on one line
Apr 21 01:10:23 <tupshin>	and then if you generated easier to read code, the point of the processor goes away, cause you could *write* easy to read code ;-)
Apr 21 01:10:28 <tupshin>	why?
Apr 21 01:11:38 <charlieg>	hulk needs sleep
Apr 21 01:11:41 <charlieg>	'night guys
Apr 21 01:11:47 <balliet>	when you do case "foo": the preprocessor has to stick everything on that one line no matter what. even if we make the ifs one level deep you still get "case 3: if(key.equals("foo")) { whatever; } break;"
Apr 21 01:11:48 <tupshin>	night, faux hulk
Apr 21 01:12:07 <balliet>	which now that i write it out doesn't seem too bad...
Apr 21 01:12:29 <tupshin>	heh
Apr 21 01:13:26 <tupshin>	I'm looking at a 3537 line long Box.java, who's only big flaw (besides being too long) is that has switch statements are nested many levels deep(e.g one small snippet formatted.):
Apr 21 01:13:26 <tupshin>	                                      case 8 :
Apr 21 01:13:26 <tupshin>						{
Apr 21 01:13:26 <tupshin>							switch (ccSwitch4.charAt(0)) {
Apr 21 01:13:26 <tupshin>								case 't' :
Apr 21 01:13:27 <tupshin>									if ("topright".equals(ccSwitch4)) {
Apr 21 01:13:29 <tupshin>										if (true)
Apr 21 01:13:31 <tupshin>											do {
Apr 21 01:13:34 <tupshin>												set(ALIGN_TOP | ALIGN_RIGHT);
Apr 21 01:13:36 <tupshin>											} while (false);
Apr 21 01:13:37 <tupshin>										break SUCCESS;
Apr 21 01:13:39 <tupshin>									}
Apr 21 01:13:41 <tupshin>									break;
Apr 21 01:13:43 <tupshin>							};
Apr 21 01:13:45 <tupshin>							break;
Apr 21 01:13:47 <tupshin>						}
Apr 21 01:15:16 <balliet>	any idea what the if(true) do { .. } while(false);  is for?
Apr 21 01:15:32 <tupshin>	lol...was just trying to figure that out myself
Apr 21 01:15:47 <tupshin>	truly bizarre
Apr 21 01:15:55 <balliet>	the while is needed for break to work correctly 
Apr 21 01:16:01 <balliet>	dunno about the if(true)
Apr 21 01:16:36 <tupshin>	i don't follw why the while is necessary
Apr 21 01:17:27 <balliet>	case "foo": if(something) { foo(); break; } bar(); i assume
Apr 21 01:17:53 <balliet>	without an extra loop in there the break would break out of one of the other switch statements and cause all kinds of problems
Apr 21 01:18:05 <tupshin>	ic
Apr 21 01:18:38 <balliet>	there might be a better way to do the same thing though 
Apr 21 01:19:09 <tupshin>	the whole thing strikes me as pretty beastly...I admit to not having thought through a better approach yet
Apr 21 01:19:27 <balliet>	i guess if i used a debugger often i probably wouldn't like the preprocessor either
Apr 21 01:19:34 <tupshin>	definitely
Apr 21 01:19:47 <tupshin>	or edited in a java aware ide
Apr 21 01:19:48 <balliet>	but since i don't, it really doesn't cause any problems for me
Apr 21 01:19:52 <tupshin>	yeah
Apr 21 01:20:26 <balliet>	i've been using eclipse on and off lately 
Apr 21 01:20:37 <balliet>	mainly for all its refactoring stuff 
Apr 21 01:20:38 <tupshin>	that's what i'm using
Apr 21 01:20:41 <tupshin>	exactly
Apr 21 01:20:59 <tupshin>	I'm using eclipse by night, and visual studio (by necessity) by day
Apr 21 01:21:04 <tupshin>	visual studio sucks in comparison
Apr 21 01:21:50 <balliet>	i have touched visual studio in a while. i think the last time i used it was when they were on version visual c++ 5.0
Apr 21 01:22:00 <tupshin>	it still sucks
Apr 21 01:22:04 <balliet>	err. visual c++ version 5.0
Apr 21 01:22:39 <balliet>	i'm so behind on all this ms stuff
Apr 21 01:22:46 <balliet>	i know nothing about .net
Apr 21 01:22:52 <balliet>	i'll probably have to learn that sometime
Apr 21 01:23:18 <tupshin>	luckily I'm mostly working around ms' SOAP stuff, so interoperability is a big possibility
Apr 21 01:24:02 <balliet>	thats good
Apr 21 01:24:54 <tupshin>	I'm really quite surprised that they adopted a standard like that for net communication...it really negates their traditional vendor lock-in approach
Apr 21 01:26:53 <balliet>	maybe they're turning over a new leaf... nah, wishful thinking
Apr 21 01:27:00 <tupshin>	yeah right
Apr 21 01:30:11 <balliet>	what if we added an option to the preprocessor to emit giant if blocks rather than the nested case statements. you could use that for debugging the switch back to the normal ugly mode for everything else
Apr 21 01:30:45 <balliet>	you're still stuck rolling your changes back into the pre-preprocessed version, but it might be easier without all the cases
Apr 21 01:31:00 <tupshin>	it honestly doesn't matter too much which kind of code the preprocessor imits...I can always work in a reformatted version of it, and it's not that unintellgible
Apr 21 01:31:14 <tupshin>	I guess that would help, but only marginally
Apr 21 01:31:27 <balliet>	yeah, you're right
Apr 21 01:32:25 <balliet>	hmm... tough decision 
Apr 21 01:32:58 <tupshin>	we can sleep on it....for some time...I've been working this way from the beginning...but I do think it's worth rethinking
Apr 21 01:44:48 <tupshin>	gosh this bug is a stinker
Apr 21 01:44:48 <tupshin>	where the hell would a problem that only occurs when you have *two* or more levels of redirect come from?
Apr 21 01:48:26 <balliet>	i don't know. i just took a quick look though box.java, i didnt't see anything obvious 
Apr 21 01:48:33 <balliet>	what is the problem?
Apr 21 01:48:38 <tupshin>	yeah....well
Apr 21 01:49:00 <tupshin>	let me show you:
Apr 21 01:49:13 <tupshin>	file 1:
Apr 21 01:49:13 <tupshin>	<vexi>
Apr 21 01:49:13 <tupshin>	    <ui:box maxwidth="200" maxheight="200">
Apr 21 01:49:13 <tupshin>	        vexi.ui.frame = thisbox;
Apr 21 01:49:13 <tupshin>	        <test>
Apr 21 01:49:14 <tupshin>	                <ui:box fill="black" textcolor="white" text="test" />
Apr 21 01:49:15 <tupshin>	        </test>
Apr 21 01:49:17 <tupshin>	    </ui:box>
Apr 21 01:49:20 <tupshin>	</vexi>
Apr 21 01:49:28 <tupshin>	2:
Apr 21 01:49:28 <tupshin>	<vexi>
Apr 21 01:49:28 <tupshin>	    <ui:box redirect="$content" shrink="true">
Apr 21 01:49:30 <tupshin>	            <border-img id="widget">
Apr 21 01:49:31 <tupshin>	                    <ui:box id="content" />
Apr 21 01:49:33 <tupshin>	            </border-img>
Apr 21 01:49:35 <tupshin>	    </ui:box>
Apr 21 01:49:37 <tupshin>	</vexi>
Apr 21 01:49:45 <tupshin>	and finally:
Apr 21 01:49:45 <tupshin>	<vexi>
Apr 21 01:49:45 <tupshin>	    <ui:box rows="3" redirect="$content">
Apr 21 01:49:50 <tupshin>	        // top row
Apr 21 01:49:51 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="nw" shrink="true" text="1"/>
Apr 21 01:49:53 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ww" hshrink="true" text="2"/>
Apr 21 01:49:56 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="sw" shrink="true" text="3"/>
Apr 21 01:49:59 <tupshin>	        // middle row
Apr 21 01:50:02 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="nn" vshrink="true" text="4"/>
Apr 21 01:50:03 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="content" />
Apr 21 01:50:06 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ss" vshrink="true" text="6"/>
Apr 21 01:50:09 <tupshin>	        // bottom row
Apr 21 01:50:11 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ne" shrink="true" text="7"/>
Apr 21 01:50:13 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="ee" hshrink="true" text="8"/>
Apr 21 01:50:15 <tupshin>	        <ui:box id="se" shrink="true" text="9"/>
Apr 21 01:50:17 <tupshin>	        
Apr 21 01:50:19 <tupshin>	    </ui:box>
Apr 21 01:50:21 <tupshin>	</vexi>
Apr 21 01:50:25 <tupshin>	so the first one redirects to test.t (which is the 2nd)
Apr 21 01:50:27 <tupshin>	and the 2nd load ups border-img.t
Apr 21 01:50:39 <tupshin>	and the end result is that this:
Apr 21 01:50:39 <tupshin>	                <ui:box fill="black" textcolor="white" text="test" />
Apr 21 01:50:39 <tupshin>	from the first file
Apr 21 01:50:48 <tupshin>	should show up in the middle of a grid
Apr 21 01:50:55 <tupshin>	(invisible 3x3)
Apr 21 01:51:19 <tupshin>	but, unless there are certain dimensions forcing there to be enough room, it's invisible
Apr 21 01:51:54 <tupshin>	I put the text=1,2,3,4,6,7,8, and 9 in to show the grid, and the interior text is cut off except for the space taken up by the perimeter numbers
Apr 21 01:52:12 <tupshin>	so, the "content" isn't having it's space allocated for it
Apr 21 01:52:23 <tupshin>	bu only if it's in the middle of that 3x3 grid
Apr 21 01:52:28 <tupshin>	but only
Apr 21 01:53:04 <tupshin>	I see no way to come up with a simpler case...every element seems important
Apr 21 01:53:06 <tupshin>	!!!!!!!
Apr 21 01:53:53 <tupshin>	if you remove one of the rows of the 3x3, all is fine
Apr 21 01:55:23 <tupshin>	I'm theorizing that the event doesn't get triggered to resize based on the content of the redirect, but that doesn't explain why the 3x3 grid is necessary, except for the fact that those shrinks are important
Apr 21 01:57:04 <balliet>	if you do the same thing just without any redirects is there still a problem?
Apr 21 01:57:10 <tupshin>	no
Apr 21 01:57:20 <balliet>	weird
Apr 21 01:57:25 <tupshin>	very
Apr 21 01:57:38 <balliet>	the redirect stuff should really have nothing to do with the layout stuff 
Apr 21 01:58:05 <tupshin>	well...there's 28 references to "redirect" in box.java...haven't looked through it all yet
Apr 21 01:58:40 <balliet>	unless it is just some bug in the layout code and things just happen to run in a certain order with the redirects enabled which trigger the bug
Apr 21 01:58:55 <tupshin>	certainly possible
Apr 21 01:59:14 <balliet>	i hate those kinds of problems
Apr 21 02:00:17 <balliet>	well, i'm kinda tired. i think i've only had about 8 hours of sleep in the last two days. i'm going to go to sleep. i'll be on irc tomorrow night
Apr 21 02:00:26 <tupshin>	gnight
Apr 21 02:00:31 <balliet>	goodnight
Apr 21 02:00:33 <tupshin>	catch ya tomorrow
Apr 21 02:00:38 ---	We'll miss you
Apr 21 02:00:45 ---	[balliet] (efd4ddqufn@roc-24-24-42-132.rochester.rr.com) : Brian Alliet
Apr 21 02:00:45 ---	[balliet] #vexi @#ibex 
Apr 21 02:00:46 ---	[balliet] saberhagen.freenode.net :Frankfurt, DE, EU
Apr 21 02:00:46 ---	[balliet] is away (sleep)
Apr 21 02:00:46 ---	[balliet] is an identified user
Apr 21 02:00:46 ---	[balliet] idle 00:00:08, signon: Tue Apr 20 19:20:10
Apr 21 02:00:46 ---	[balliet] End of WHOIS list.
Apr 21 03:30:20 <--	vexi has quit ("killed")
Apr 21 03:31:52 -->	vexi (vexibot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 21 06:30:20 <--	vexi has quit ("killed")
Apr 21 06:31:49 -->	vexi (vexibot@mixdown.ca) has joined #vexi
Apr 21 07:25:29 <charlieg>	tupshin: i'm thinking that is a bug with simplex
Apr 21 07:25:36 <charlieg>	it's not allocating row/col dims properly
Apr 21 07:29:48 -->	sclark (~stuart@cpc1-shep3-6-0-cust8.nott.cable.ntl.com) has joined #vexi
Apr 21 07:31:09 <charlieg>	morning sclark
Apr 21 07:49:56 <--	sclark (~stuart@cpc1-shep3-6-0-cust8.nott.cable.ntl.com) has left #vexi
Apr 21 08:27:27 -->	JeffBuhrt (~Jeff@user-0c93r5m.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #vexi
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 21 08:59:41 2004

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 23 18:36:55 2004

Apr 23 18:36:55 -->	You are now talking on #vexi
Apr 23 18:36:55 ---	Topic for #vexi is #vexi welcome to the revolution
Apr 23 18:36:55 ---	Topic for #vexi set by charlieg at Mon Apr 19 20:53:56
Apr 23 18:36:55 ---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to balliet
Apr 23 18:37:04 ---	[tupshin] (~harpert@209.21.79.162) : gaim
Apr 23 18:37:04 ---	[tupshin] @#vexi 
Apr 23 18:37:04 ---	[tupshin] irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/
Apr 23 18:37:04 ---	[tupshin] is an identified user
Apr 23 18:37:04 ---	[tupshin] idle 03:49:36, signon: Fri Apr 23 14:47:10
Apr 23 18:37:04 ---	[tupshin] End of WHOIS list.
Apr 23 18:37:36 <balliet>	tupshin, i just posted a message to core@vexi about subclassing box.java
Apr 23 18:37:51 <balliet>	i'm really not trying to shoot down every idea you come up with... i swear 
Apr 23 18:37:54 <balliet>	:)
Apr 23 18:39:46 ---	[tupshin] (~harpert@209.21.79.162) : gaim
Apr 23 18:39:46 ---	[tupshin] @#vexi 
Apr 23 18:39:46 ---	[tupshin] irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/
Apr 23 18:39:46 ---	[tupshin] is an identified user
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Apr 23 18:39:46 ---	[tupshin] End of WHOIS list.
Apr 23 18:44:44 <tupshin>	lol...brian...I know...I appreciate your very insightful comments...I'm responding now
Apr 23 18:45:26 <charlieg>	hey balliet
Apr 23 18:45:28 <charlieg>	how goes?
Apr 23 18:45:30 <balliet>	good
Apr 23 18:45:45 <balliet>	i'm glad the week is over. too much school work this week.
Apr 23 18:45:54 <charlieg>	you've been quiet lately... (then again, you're usually quiet - busy writing code or something as productive!)
Apr 23 18:46:00 <charlieg>	ah, lots of school work?
Apr 23 18:46:03 <balliet>	yeah
Apr 23 18:46:09 <balliet>	btw, the web site looks really good
Apr 23 18:46:11 <balliet>	nice job
Apr 23 18:46:28 <charlieg>	i thought you were working full time...
Apr 23 18:46:31 <charlieg>	thanks
Apr 23 18:46:39 <charlieg>	it's simple and functional, that's the important thing ;)
Apr 23 18:46:56 <tupshin>	yeah...it is nice, charlie...despite my criticisms (I feel like the Brian of the web world...knocking everything down) ;-)
Apr 23 18:46:59 <balliet>	i go to school full time and have a part time job (about 15-20 hours a week)
Apr 23 18:48:26 <charlieg>	constructive criticisms are good ;)
Apr 23 18:48:36 <balliet>	hey, guess what, the paper adam and i wrote about nestedvm for IVME got accepted. so i'll be meeting adam in washington dc this summer. maybe i'll be able to talk some sense into him in person :)
Apr 23 18:48:48 <tupshin>	cool
Apr 23 18:49:05 <charlieg>	that's cool, despite you getting it in late, eh? ;)
Apr 23 18:49:28 <balliet>	yeah, he actually got us an extension (little white lie..)
Apr 23 18:49:57 <tupshin>	brian...quick question about your mail........
Apr 23 18:50:00 <balliet>	sure
Apr 23 18:50:03 <tupshin>	Since every box only has one parent that references it, why do you need to use handles to reference a box, as opposed to explicitly removing the child from the parent and re-adding the converted box to that same parent. It's not like more complex problems where you don't want to have to keep track of everything referencing you.
Apr 23 18:51:13 <balliet>	but someone can do "var somebox = ibex.box; otherbox[0] = somebox;" then sometime later mess around with "somebox" you don't always get the reference to the box from its parent
Apr 23 18:52:12 <balliet>	and without imposing all kinds of weird restrictions on the use of box objects we can't really prevent people from doing that
Apr 23 18:52:27 <charlieg>	what about using internal classes balliet, where everything can be done inside of Box.java
Apr 23 18:52:30 <tupshin>	yes, but you can always find your parent, so the box conversion process can know which parent->child box reference to remove and recreate after the box conversion
Apr 23 18:52:59 <charlieg>	tupshin: what issues did you have with using internal classes to absorb the extra overhead?
Apr 23 18:53:15 <charlieg>	(i can't explain them coherently!)
Apr 23 18:53:15 <tupshin>	charlieg: I didn't see it helping at all ;-)
Apr 23 18:53:25 <tupshin>	but I could be missing the point
Apr 23 18:53:28 <balliet>	by "internal classes" you mean inner classes right?
Apr 23 18:53:36 <tupshin>	i assume
Apr 23 18:54:06 <balliet>	inner classes don't really buy you anything. they are just like any other class only they have a hidden reference to the class that created them
Apr 23 18:54:34 <balliet>	(unless of course you have a static inner class, then it is just like any other class, just with a different name)
Apr 23 18:54:41 <tupshin>	damn, brian...I think I see your point above
Apr 23 18:55:16 <tupshin>	you would need to maintain some kind of reverse mapping of all references to a given box in order to be able to restore and recreate it
Apr 23 18:55:31 <balliet>	yep
Apr 23 18:55:36 <tupshin>	@#$@#$^
Apr 23 18:56:05 <balliet>	i think we can still put the reflow stuff in another object, so you're idea partially works 
Apr 23 18:56:08 <tupshin>	would it be feasible to create it on the fly right before the destruction, or would finding them be too expensive?
Apr 23 18:56:12 <charlieg>	balliet: so i'm saying that you have Box.Text, Box.Image, Box.Container, and a private property in Box that points to an instance of one of those once it's required
Apr 23 18:56:20 <tupshin>	yes...that idea probably works
Apr 23 18:56:58 <charlieg>	so it's all handled internally for Box.java, avoiding problems like javascript referencing
Apr 23 18:57:21 <balliet>	to find all the possibly references to a box you'd have to go through every js object. i'd imagine that would be too expensive 
Apr 23 18:57:26 <balliet>	err possible 
Apr 23 18:57:42 <charlieg>	so if you put text to a box, inside of the put() function you just do 'this.boxtype = new Box.Text'
Apr 23 18:57:58 <balliet>	i see what youre saying charlie 
Apr 23 18:58:30 <charlieg>	and it's 'not gonna work', right?  that's what tupshin said... ;)
Apr 23 18:58:40 <tupshin>	lol...I was worried about the performance
Apr 23 18:59:45 <balliet>	charlie: thats kind of where I was going with the reflow stuff in another object
Apr 23 19:00:07 <balliet>	i dont think it would be worth it for stuff like text though, thats just two words, probably not worth the overhead
Apr 23 19:00:23 <tupshin>	and my concern echos adam's criticism about speed of accessing things that way
Apr 23 19:01:29 <charlieg>	balliet: so when are you gonna give a big list of what you think needs to be done before a release? ;)
Apr 23 19:02:10 <balliet>	i think you're better qualified to make that list than me... i'm not developing the widgets (or anything using ibex/vexi for that matter)
Apr 23 19:02:31 <charlieg>	is there anything as far as your concerned for the stuff that you maintain?
Apr 23 19:02:40 <charlieg>	like nestedvm and the js engine?
Apr 23 19:02:54 <tupshin>	charlieg...care to get brian to help with that bloody "gone" problem?
Apr 23 19:03:03 <balliet>	nope, i think they're fine 
Apr 23 19:03:06 <balliet>	gone problem?
Apr 23 19:03:17 <charlieg>	bug number tupshin... (i forget)
Apr 23 19:03:20 <tupshin>	looking
Apr 23 19:03:34 <balliet>	i probably have an email about that somewhere in here...
Apr 23 19:03:49 <charlieg>	balliet: in a shrunken grid, the core literally ignores boxes on the inside
Apr 23 19:04:02 <tupshin>	it's task #3 in core
Apr 23 19:04:20 <charlieg>	*sigh* i'll get the link
Apr 23 19:04:26 <tupshin>	it's what we thought was tied to redirect a few days ago
Apr 23 19:04:36 <tupshin>	test case inline:
Apr 23 19:04:37 <tupshin>	<vexi>
Apr 23 19:04:37 <tupshin>	    <ui:box maxwidth="200" maxheight="200">
Apr 23 19:04:37 <tupshin>	        vexi.ui.frame = thisbox;
Apr 23 19:04:37 <tupshin>	        <ui:box rows="3" shrink="true">
Apr 23 19:04:38 <tupshin>	            // top row
Apr 23 19:04:40 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="nw" shrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:04:42 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="ww" hshrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:04:44 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="sw" shrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:04:46 <balliet>	oh yeah
Apr 23 19:04:48 <tupshin>	            // middle row
Apr 23 19:04:50 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="nn" vshrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:04:52 <tupshin>	            <ui:box fill="black" textcolor="white" text="test" />
Apr 23 19:04:54 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="ss" vshrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:04:58 <tupshin>	            // bottom row
Apr 23 19:05:00 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="ne" shrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:05:02 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="ee" hshrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:05:04 <tupshin>	            <ui:box id="se" shrink="true" />
Apr 23 19:05:06 <tupshin>	        </ui:box>
Apr 23 19:05:08 <tupshin>	    </ui:box>
Apr 23 19:05:09 <balliet>	one of these days i'll have to learn how the simplex stuff works. i still haven't bothered to go though all that
Apr 23 19:05:10 <tupshin>	</vexi>
Apr 23 19:05:14 <tupshin>	the text "test" doesn't get any space allocated for it
Apr 23 19:05:16 <tupshin>	thankfully we got it down to a single file test case instead of the three original files
Apr 23 19:05:20 <charlieg>	tupshin, we have a paste bot
Apr 23 19:05:28 <charlieg>	;)
Apr 23 19:05:28 <tupshin>	yeah yeah
Apr 23 19:05:38 <balliet>	this is so much more fun to watch though 
Apr 23 19:05:39 <tupshin>	II forgot we weren't in jabber and it might kick me
Apr 23 19:08:55 <tupshin>	brian...did you know that while Simplex.java is still in the archive, it's not even used anymore? Either adam incorporated a very tiny specialized version of the algorithm into solve() in Box.java or else he ditched it completely
Apr 23 19:09:43 <balliet>	he probably incorporated it into box.java
Apr 23 19:09:48 <charlieg>	my vote is on 'specialized'
Apr 23 19:09:59 <tupshin>	yeah...but finding hints of it is pretty hard ;-)
Apr 23 19:10:12 <charlieg>	:)
Apr 23 19:10:29 <tupshin>	can you point to anything that looks like it might have been adapted from it, charlie?
Apr 23 19:11:15 <charlieg>	i can see the overall concept of his original emails
Apr 23 19:11:35 <tupshin>	yeah...barely
Apr 23 19:11:43 <charlieg>	k*box.col/box.colspan stuff
Apr 23 19:12:02 <charlieg>	if you replace 'targetColWidth' with 'k' then you might see it more ;)
Apr 23 19:12:51 ---	[adam7734] (~Adam@pcp03805886pcs.cstltn01.in.comcast.net) : irc.freenode.net
Apr 23 19:12:51 ---	[adam7734] #vexi 
Apr 23 19:12:51 ---	[adam7734] irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/
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Apr 23 19:12:51 ---	[adam7734] End of WHOIS list.
Apr 23 19:14:22 <tupshin>	but honestly, I know how the simplex algorithm works (basically), and I don't see any hint of it actually being used. I think that he took the basic idea of solving for multiple constraints, initially used simplex to do it, and then wrote a completely different algorithm to solve a special case.
Apr 23 19:14:50 <balliet>	that makes sense 
Apr 23 19:15:23 <tupshin>	just one of those cases where we had to guess wth was going on ;-)
Apr 23 19:16:00 <charlieg>	if only he'd spent his time working out better reflow and simply accepted my patches for fixing grid layout
Apr 23 19:16:09 <charlieg>	then we'd have something very usable and relatively fast
Apr 23 19:16:23 <charlieg>	rather than spending the last 3 days fixing his voodoo
Apr 23 19:16:36 <charlieg>	but that would have been sensible!
Apr 23 19:16:46 <charlieg>	--bitterness; please charlie boy!
Apr 23 19:19:10 <tupshin>	brian...how cumbersome would it be maintain a reverse mapping for box references? You would only need do it for non Parent->Child references, and those don't strike me as being too prevalent.
Apr 23 19:20:19 <balliet>	i think it would be pretty difficult, and you'd have to hack up org.ibex.js a lot
Apr 23 19:20:39 <tupshin>	difficult for other reasons beside org.ibex.js?
Apr 23 19:20:58 <tupshin>	and couldn't it be completely hidden from js space?
Apr 23 19:21:40 <balliet>	maybe i'm not sure what you're saying... you want box.java to somehow go back and fixup all the js objects that contain a reference to a box?
Apr 23 19:21:51 <tupshin>	box.java, or some helper class
Apr 23 19:21:56 <balliet>	right
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Apr 23 19:22:46 <balliet>	you could probably search though all the js objects without modifying org.ibex.js (kinda like a garbage collector)
Apr 23 19:22:50 <balliet>	but that would be slow
Apr 23 19:23:13 <balliet>	to actually keep track of each reference would require org.ibex.js to keep track of where each object came from 
Apr 23 19:23:15 <tupshin>	yeah
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Apr 23 19:23:41 <tupshin>	no...different
Apr 23 19:23:57 <balliet>	everytime you did "var foo = otherobject.bar;" org.ibex.js would need to record that foo came from otherobject.bar
Apr 23 19:24:01 <tupshin>	basically, creating a reference in org.ibex.js would possibly be modified to add an entry to a reverse mapping
Apr 23 19:24:08 <tupshin>	but destroying and recreating could be done outside of org.ibex.js
Apr 23 19:24:31 <tupshin>	we're only talking about boxes
Apr 23 19:24:36 <tupshin>	not all objects
Apr 23 19:25:10 <balliet>	i know.. i'm still not following you though
Apr 23 19:25:50 <balliet>	so would the references you get to boxes in org.ibex.js be actual Box objects or something else?
Apr 23 19:25:50 <tupshin>	hmmm...you're statement above was correct, except it only applies to when otherobject is a box, no?
Apr 23 19:26:02 <tupshin>	real boxes...same as today
Apr 23 19:27:51 <tupshin>	but creating a reference to a box would have to perform additional task of updating a master reverse reference table
Apr 23 19:27:51 <tupshin>	but that "patching up" during a creation and destroy would come from outside of org.ibex.js
Apr 23 19:28:19 <balliet>	ok, i think i'm understanding it now
Apr 23 19:28:33 <tupshin>	and the nonsense meter says..... ;-)
Apr 23 19:28:44 <balliet>	:)
Apr 23 19:29:26 *	balliet is thinking
Apr 23 19:29:36 <tupshin>	at least i made him think
Apr 23 19:30:29 <balliet>	sounds like it would almost work. i'm not sure if the cost of maintaining that table would be too high though
Apr 23 19:30:52 <balliet>	one other problem is that it screws up garbage collection (that pesky garbage collection stuff causes too many problems)
Apr 23 19:31:28 <tupshin>	I don't think the table cost would be too high, unless I greatly mis-estimate the number of box references in a typical app...but GC is not my strong suit
Apr 23 19:31:33 <balliet>	since the reference table would need to hold pointers to all objects that contain pointers to the box the objects won't be able to be gced until the box goes away (if that made any sense)
Apr 23 19:31:59 <tupshin>	yes it does
Apr 23 19:32:27 <tupshin>	so js object destruction needs to remove entries from the table? is that the implication?
Apr 23 19:32:57 <balliet>	yeah, but we don't really "destroy" things in org.ibex.js, we just let the gc do it, which is the problem 
Apr 23 19:33:07 <tupshin>	hmmmmm
Apr 23 19:33:10 <balliet>	it would be really hard to destroy things manually
Apr 23 19:33:16 <tupshin>	hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Apr 23 19:33:23 <tupshin>	grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Apr 23 19:33:26 <tupshin>	lol
Apr 23 19:33:29 <tupshin>	frustrated
Apr 23 19:33:54 <balliet>	keep in mind when you do var f = function() {  } function has to keep around a reference to the parent scope, so we can just get rid of the scope when the parent function exits
Apr 23 19:34:56 <balliet>	weak pointers solve this problems but they don't exist in jdk 1.1 (maybe we don't want to keep that restriction anymore though)
Apr 23 19:35:15 <tupshin>	interesting...been wondering about ditching that restriction
Apr 23 19:35:20 <tupshin>	can a java app easily find the number of references to an object?
Apr 23 19:35:33 <balliet>	nope
Apr 23 19:35:37 <tupshin>	fudge
Apr 23 19:35:39 <tupshin>	that would make it easy
Apr 23 19:37:34 <tupshin>	brian...what are your thoughts on ditching 1.1? where do you still see it as valuable?
Apr 23 19:38:33 <balliet>	for all the platforms we currently target there is no reason to restrict ourselves to 1.1, but if we want ibex/vexi to run on your pda, cell phone, etc it probably isn't a bad restriction 
Apr 23 19:38:58 <balliet>	i don't know too much about j2me though 
Apr 23 19:39:16 <tupshin>	I've done a tiny bit with it...but I'll have to research it's restrictions
Apr 23 19:39:55 <tupshin>	j2me spec == no weak references
Apr 23 19:40:12 <balliet>	brb
Apr 23 19:46:16 <balliet>	man... i just helped my friend put together this stupid flyer for his business and he somehow managed to blow away his copy. now i've gotta redo it. i hate people...
Apr 23 19:46:31 <tupshin>	lol..you and me both...people suck ;-)
Apr 23 19:47:02 <balliet>	hmm, no weak references in j2me. we probably shouldn't use them then 
Apr 23 19:47:47 <tupshin>	ok...I'm going to stop thinking about this problem for a while (yeah...time to get stable). Bug fixing time.
Apr 23 20:18:28 <charlieg>	balliet: feel free to create PD pages for NestedVM and JS if you think of anything that might be useful
Apr 23 20:19:27 <charlieg>	hint hint ;)
Apr 23 20:25:26 <tupshin>	!google gilgul java
Apr 23 20:25:29 <vexi>	gilgul java: http://javalab.iai.uni-bonn.de/research/gilgul/languageDocumentation.html
Apr 23 20:25:51 <tupshin>	if only...extension to java to do dynamic object replacement
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Apr 23 20:51:54 <balliet>	hey tupshin, that gilgul looks pretty neat. too bad we can't use it. i'm going out. i'll probably be back on irc later
Apr 23 20:51:56 ---	We'll miss you
Apr 23 20:53:50 <charlieg>	later balliet
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Apr 23 21:03:33 <tupshin>	bbl
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Apr 23 21:51:32 <charlieg>	wb JeffBuhrt
Apr 23 21:51:39 <JeffBuhrt>	;)
Apr 23 22:39:01 <JeffBuhrt>	tupshin: when you were fixing exceptions did you have cases where .t lines numbers were way off?
Apr 23 22:40:05 <JeffBuhrt>	 file:.\fortune.t:41: call:http://rocketlogic.com:8080/RocketLogic/
Apr 23 22:40:05 <JeffBuhrt>	            Platform: attempting environment-variable DNS proxy detection attempting org.ibex.plat.Java2 proxy detection
Apr 23 22:40:05 <JeffBuhrt>	org.ibex.plat.Java2.: No proxy information found in Java Plugin classes
Apr 23 22:40:05 <JeffBuhrt>	 file:.\fortune.t:45: ran
Apr 23 22:40:05 <JeffBuhrt>	                  JS: file:.\fortune.t: 47: can't coerce JSExn: org.ibex.HTTP$HT
Apr 23 22:40:06 <JeffBuhrt>	TPException: server closed the socket with no response [org.ibex.js.JSExn] to ty
Apr 23 22:40:08 <JeffBuhrt>	pe String.
Apr 23 22:40:31 <JeffBuhrt>	on a: var obj = ibex.net.rpc.xml(svc).fortune.get();
Apr 23 23:18:09 <charlieg>	JeffBuhrt: i did but i never logged them
Apr 23 23:18:19 <charlieg>	(was busy cursing adam at the time i think)
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Apr 23 23:28:08 <charlieg>	balliet: there?
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Apr 23 23:38:16 <tupshin>	heya minddog
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Apr 24 02:11:03 ---	[balliet] (cryx2txeng@roc-24-24-42-132.rochester.rr.com) : Brian Alliet
Apr 24 02:11:03 ---	[balliet] @#vexi @#ibex 
Apr 24 02:11:03 ---	[balliet] niven.freenode.net :Corvallis, OR, US
Apr 24 02:11:03 ---	[balliet] is away (out)
Apr 24 02:11:03 ---	[balliet] is an identified user
Apr 24 02:11:03 ---	[balliet] idle 05:19:06, signon: Fri Apr 23 18:37:09
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Apr 24 06:01:35 <charlieg>	growl
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Apr 24 14:18:46 <charlieg>	hey JeffBuhrt
Apr 24 14:21:19 <charlieg>	JeffBuhrt: fixed
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Apr 24 16:44:41 <JeffBuhrt>	hey charlieg
Apr 24 16:45:01 *	tupshin gets ignore as usual ;-)
Apr 24 16:45:04 <tupshin>	d
Apr 24 16:45:14 <JeffBuhrt>	hey tupshin!
Apr 24 16:45:16 <tupshin>	hola
Apr 24 16:46:40 <JeffBuhrt>	I just read the email. I will dig from that point also.
Apr 24 16:46:49 <tupshin>	great
Apr 24 16:47:13 <tupshin>	the error handling / string conversion is certainly a mess
Apr 24 16:47:57 <JeffBuhrt>	      $stream.action ++= function(v) {
Apr 24 16:47:58 <JeffBuhrt>	         ibex.thread = refresh;
Apr 24 16:47:58 <JeffBuhrt>	      }
Apr 24 16:47:58 <JeffBuhrt>	Wouldn't put it in a new thread?
Apr 24 16:48:37 <tupshin>	it didn't appear to for me...but then again...I might have switched things around enough to break that when I was testing with vexi
Apr 24 16:49:19 <tupshin>	what's the error you're currently seeing?
Apr 24 16:49:27 <tupshin>	because I never saw the exact error you saw
Apr 24 16:50:01 <tupshin>	I'm seeing an underlying problem of the hostname being an empty string when it actually tries to open a socket
Apr 24 16:50:09 <tupshin>	that's why I'm seeing "connection refused"
Apr 24 16:51:09 <JeffBuhrt>	            Platform: attempting environment-variable DNS proxy detection
Apr 24 16:51:09 <JeffBuhrt>	                      attempting org.ibex.plat.Java2 proxy detection
Apr 24 16:51:09 <JeffBuhrt>	org.ibex.plat.Java2.: No proxy information found in Java Plugin classes
Apr 24 16:51:09 <JeffBuhrt>	        fortune.t:46: ran
Apr 24 16:51:09 <JeffBuhrt>	                  JS: fortune.t: 48: can't coerce JSExn: org.ibex.HTTP$HTTPExcep
Apr 24 16:51:09 <JeffBuhrt>	tion: server closed the socket with no response [org.ibex.js.JSExn] to type String.
Apr 24 16:51:39 <tupshin>	can you output with .toString instead of attempting automatic conversion?
Apr 24 16:51:51 <JeffBuhrt>	(oh, good point, I checked it in using 'ibex.'
Apr 24 16:52:20 <tupshin>	yeah...need to stabilize vexi a bit more, then I'll start rejecting bugs that don't work against it ;-)
Apr 24 16:52:24 <JeffBuhrt>	I will pick up your vexi.jar and widgets.vexi and retry
Apr 24 16:52:37 <tupshin>	hold off on that...too unstable today
Apr 24 16:52:50 <tupshin>	probably tomorrow
Apr 24 16:53:01 <JeffBuhrt>	ok
Apr 24 16:53:12 <tupshin>	in the meantime, just try with toString() to output that...just curious
Apr 24 16:56:20 <tupshin>	yeah...something's definitely wrong with the hostname...it's not set when connection is establised, you it tries to go to url:
Apr 24 16:56:33 <tupshin>	http://:8080/....
Apr 24 16:56:56 <JeffBuhrt>	Hmm:
Apr 24 16:56:56 <JeffBuhrt>	            var obj = ibex.net.rpc.xml(svc).fortune.get();
Apr 24 16:56:56 <JeffBuhrt>	ibex.log.info("ran");
Apr 24 16:56:56 <JeffBuhrt>	ibex.log.info("obj.toString():" + obj.toString());
Apr 24 16:56:56 <JeffBuhrt>	            $label.text = "Message received: " + obj;
Apr 24 16:56:56 <JeffBuhrt>	         } catch(e) {
Apr 24 16:56:58 <JeffBuhrt>	ibex.log.info("exception");
Apr 24 16:57:02 <JeffBuhrt>	Gives:
Apr 24 16:57:04 <JeffBuhrt>	Gives:
Apr 24 16:57:07 <JeffBuhrt>	        fortune.t:46: ran
Apr 24 16:57:08 <JeffBuhrt>	        fortune.t:52: exception
Apr 24 16:57:10 <JeffBuhrt>	        fortune.t:53: e:null
Apr 24 16:57:52 <JeffBuhrt>	So obj is null on the return
Apr 24 16:58:01 <JeffBuhrt>	and the exception itself is funny
Apr 24 16:58:17 <tupshin>	yeah...don't bother trying to debug further...I'll look at the host name getting lost problem
Apr 24 16:58:52 <JeffBuhrt>	ok.
Apr 24 16:59:09 <JeffBuhrt>	I did try passing it as a string vs via a var and it does the same thing
Apr 24 16:59:26 <tupshin>	yup...even adam's example from the ref has same problem
Apr 24 17:00:43 <JeffBuhrt>	I thought you said http referencing an archive also wasn't working a few weeks ago.
Apr 24 17:00:58 <tupshin>	correct, but I think for different reasons
Apr 24 17:01:05 <JeffBuhrt>	(thus the reason I created bug55)
Apr 24 17:01:29 <tupshin>	I think david is supposed to be working on that, but I'll check with him
Apr 24 17:01:31 <JeffBuhrt>	(but 55 is actually for the parse/utf8 not working (or even existing as the doc says)
Apr 24 17:01:33 <JeffBuhrt>	np
Apr 24 17:01:46 <tupshin>	ok
Apr 24 17:02:43 <JeffBuhrt>	(given in bug55 I haven't found how to debug a stream (assuming it was set), my next step was to use either bug to trace the http problem)
Apr 24 17:09:15 <tupshin>	fixed it, jeff
Apr 24 17:09:27 <JeffBuhrt>	What was it?
Apr 24 17:09:37 <tupshin>	in HTTP.java's connect()
Apr 24 17:09:46 <tupshin>	the url parsing code 
Apr 24 17:10:26 <tupshin>	string temphost has already been cut down to start out with "://", but then this happens:
Apr 24 17:10:28 <tupshin>	        String temphost = url.substring(url.indexOf("://") + 1);
Apr 24 17:10:44 <tupshin>	which only cuts out the colon, instead of the whole ://
Apr 24 17:10:52 <tupshin>	need to be this:
Apr 24 17:10:52 <tupshin>	        String temphost = url.substring(url.indexOf("://") + 3);
Apr 24 17:11